Sport's race car build

[sport.]

I think we are gonna go with the round tubing for the X,my wifes cousin work for Hunter Steel up here and he gave me 90 ft. of 1 3/4-.095 wall tubing.And my cousin found the parts you listed.My mothers cousin that owns the scrap yard gave me 2 rear end 4 sets of upper and lower control arms 4 set of rear control arms and 2 camaro clips.I think were gonna be in pretty good shape for spare parts.(LOL)It's nice to have family

When I rebuid the control arms should I go with steel bushings.I did it on the last Nova I drove.

I hope to get the I-beams here this weekend to start on the jig.Just as long as I get this 1965 VW beatle painted that is.

Any other things I should be on the hunt for?

Chad

[unklian]

Chad: Sorry for the hijack.

Have you got a MIG ?
I've got one that needs a new home.

[sport.]

Chad: Sorry for the hijack.

Have you got a MIG ?
I've got one that needs a new home.

No problem for the hijack.Yup i sure do have a mig.Thanks tho.I bought a plasma cutter last year and havent used it much,but I got a feelin' it's gonna get put to some use on this stockcar.(LOL)

[Bob Paulin]

I think we are gonna go with the round tubing for the X,my wifes cousin work for Hunter Steel up here and he gave me 90 ft. of 1 3/4-.095 wall tubing.

Nothing wrong with that.....especially since you've suggested that they probably don't call you "Stretch", and you should not need to count fractions of an inch in setting yourself low in the car.

Just keep the "X" low in the chassis like I suggested, and make sure you tie in your control arm mounts in the rear.

Since your "X" is going to be 1-3/4" high, you MIGHT want to pick the "X" up just enough to sit above the floor when the floor is sitting on the lower lip of the frame rail....

And my cousin found the parts you listed.My mothers cousin that owns the scrap yard gave me 2 rear end 4 sets of upper and lower control arms 4 set of rear control arms and 2 camaro clips.I think were gonna be in pretty good shape for spare parts.(LOL)It's nice to have family

Did your cousin find the phenolic pistons for your calipers? They REALLY, REALLY work on keeping the heat transfer to the fluid down.

When I rebuid the control arms should I go with steel bushings.I did it on the last Nova I drove.

Do the front lowers with steel.

You want to leave the uppers on both the rear and front control arms with stock, but new, rubber bushings. This allows a little bit of flex to absorb any misalignment that would cause a bind otherwise.


We're gonna' do something a little different on those lower rear control arms to help you get out of those tight corners.

You'll only need one set of steel or polyurethane bushings to do two sets of lowers.

With what we're gonna' do, it might even be beneficial to do one lower rear arm in steel and one in polyurethane.

I'm thinking about whether to post the mod here or to e-mail it to keep it away from certain eyes.

On the front uppers, you want to leave the crossbar end nuts just loose enough so the inner bushing pivots on them. Use a little anti-seize.

On the rears, you want them to also be loose enough for the inner bushing to pivot, but that will eventually result in the holes becoming egg-shaped.

You can....

....weld heavy washers over the bolt holes to reinforce them.

.....weld a nut to one bolt hole, and use a locknut on the end of the bolt to keep it from spinning in the control arm hole and wearing it out.

.....with your apparent bottomless supply of parts, change the arms when the holes become enlarged.

I'm glad you have so many sets.....you'll be able to do some experimentation with tuning.

Any other things I should be on the hunt for?

Actually, I've been a Road Warrior today - doing a turnaround trip to Massachusetts so my wife could visit with her brother who was up from South Carolina.

And, I just got off the phone with Dan who has a 200 lap, open-comp Sportsman race at New Brunswick International Speedway this weekend, so I'm pretty tired right now.....but, if I think of anything, I'll let you know. I'm sure you're not done gathering parts yet....

BTW - I don't know what you planned for a fuel cell, but you'll need a 22 gallon to effectively use the empty can trick. You probably figured that one out already.

[sport.]

Hey Bob I had an interesting email today from one of my fellow competitors at Flamboro today, apparently he is watching this board,so please don't spill the beans yet(LOL)

Chad

[Bob Paulin]

Interesting dialog in this thread!  
....I wonder if Chad's competitors are following along?  

Hey Bob I had an interesting email today from one of my fellow competitors at Flamboro today, apparently he is watching this board,so please don't spill the beans yet(LOL)

Chad

Talk about a sixth sense....!!!!!

I'm not a gambler, but if I ever went to Las Vegas, I'd probably want Bruce riding in the shotgun seat.....


B.P.

[sport.]

Interesting dialog in this thread!  
....I wonder if Chad's competitors are following along?  

Talk about a sixth sense....!!!!!

I'm not a gambler, but if I went to Las Vegas, I'd probably want Bruce in the shotgun seat.....

B.P.

No kidding!(LOL)

[Bob Paulin]

Interesting dialog in this thread!  
....I wonder if Chad's competitors are following along?  

Talk about a sixth sense....!!!!!

I'm not a gambler, but if I went to Las Vegas, I'd probably want Bruce in the shotgun seat.....

B.P.

No kidding!(LOL)

Yup!!!

The final - and, obviously most important - installment on preparing the lower control arms will come via private e-mail when I have a chance...

Apologies to all the other Flamboro competitors.

I'll give everybody some, but I'll only give some everything.....

B.P.

[SKR8PN]

BP or Sport............
Would it be askin' to much for one of you to send me an e-mail when ya get to the JUICY stuff?  I love this thread,it is THE best one I have ever read, and I don't REALLY want to miss TO much..........
Purty Please?

[sport.]

BP or Sport............
Would it be askin' to much for one of you to send me an e-mail when ya get to the JUICY stuff?  I love this thread,it is THE best one I have ever read, and I don't REALLY want to miss TO much..........
Purty Please?

You'll have to talk to Bob on that one.If he says it's O.K I'll forward it to ya when I get it.

By the way Bob do you have a buisness name or shop?I'm gonna put your name on the car.

I also found out that an 1980 malibu is 160 lbs. lighter than a Monte Carlo.

Chad.

[Bob Paulin]

BP or Sport............
Would it be askin' to much for one of you to send me an e-mail when ya get to the JUICY stuff?  I love this thread,it is THE best one I have ever read, and I don't REALLY want to miss TO much..........
Purty Please?

You'll have to talk to Bob on that one.If he says it's O.K I'll forward it to ya when I get it.

I appreciate Chad's integrity in this matter....

Let me give it some thought.....

By the way Bob do you have a buisness name or shop?I'm gonna put your name on the car.

I've got my logo in MS Word *.doc.......but I have mixed feelings about advertising outside my own region.

I have tried to work long-distance before, and it really hasn't worked out for either party.

Since no money is changing hands in this particular situation, there is no expectation of service level, so I'm pretty comfortable......but, I usually like to work with my customers in their shops and on the track, so I haven't solicited business outside my comfortable travel zone.

While I appreciate the offer, it is another, "Let me think about it......."

I also found out that an 1980 malibu is 160 lbs. lighter than a Monte Carlo.

I can get a Monte Carlo pretty light by putting it on the "Oxy-Acetylene Diet", you know?

B.P.

[sport.]

By the way Bob do you have a buisness name or shop?I'm gonna put your name on the car

[I've got my logo in MS Word *.doc.......but I have mixed feelings about advertising outside my own region.

I have tried to work long-distance before, and it really hasn't worked out for either party.

Since no money is changing hands in this particular situation, there is no expectation of service level, so I'm pretty comfortable......but, I usually like to work with my customers in their shops and on the track, so I haven't solicited business outside my comfortable travel zone.

While I appreciate the offer, it is another, "Let me think about it.......".

.

I can get a Monte Carlo pretty light by putting it on the "Oxy-Acetylene Diet", you know?.[/quote]

B.P.[/quote]


I know what you mean about the "Oxy-Acetylene Diet" The only thing I plan to use of the original body is the roof and top peice of the quarter panel and the skined out hood.The rest will be all fabricated.and I'm gonna use one of the 5*STAR Monte Carlo SS noses..

It's no probelm about putting your name on the car Bob,I Dont expect a certain level of performace out of anything.I would never bad mouth anyone or any of their ideas.I am greatfull for the knowledge you are willing to share.All I want is this car to be built right.I have built other stock cars before that were O.K, and I dont car If I miss half a season just as long as it's right.You help me out before when I asked you a few race car questions.So I am willing to use any of your ideas or sugestions..Thanks again Bob.If your not comfortable with your name on the car thats fine.I understand you position.But all I can say is were gonna do are best to build one HE** of a race car.I got a pretty good peice for under the hood too(LOL)

I dont know who is more excited about buildin' this thing, me or my 5 year old daughter(Leah)It's gonna be lotsa fun for me and her to build this thing.I think thats maybe why I so pumped up to build it,because she is really interested and my Dad too.He hasnt been around a race car in 25 years.It should be a fun little family project.

Chad

[sport.]

Bob here is my email incase you don't have it,

chadfinley30@msn.com

[sport.]

Bob here is my email incase you don't have it,

chadfinley30@msn.com

These Metric cars have a very low roll centre do they not?
I was wondering if there is a ball joint or something that we could use to raise the roll centre a little?Or do you think that would hurt it?I was kinda thinkin it would help in the corners a little.It's a pretty flat track only 12 degrees  banking in the corner.

Chad

[Bob Paulin]

These Metric cars have a very low roll centre do they not?
I was wondering if there is a ball joint or something that we could use to raise the roll centre a little?Or do you think that would hurt it?I was kinda thinkin it would help in the corners a little.It's a pretty flat track only 12 degrees  banking in the corner.

Chad

Yes....raising the roll center (excuse me, cenTRE) is usually good for a flatter track. A higher roll center allows you to run softer springs since there less distance between the CoG of the mass, and the point about which it rolls.....a shorter lever arm, if you will.

Let's say your car's weight CoG comes in at around 20 inches. Well, a 20-inch CoG acting against a one-inch roll center gives you a 19-inch lever arm trying to roll the car in the turns.

Raise that roll center to four-inches, and you now have a 16-inch lever arm between the CoG and the roll center in the front.

The above is an oversimplification, since the car rolls on a roll axis which is a line drawn between the front roll center and the rear roll center - AND the CoG acts upon the roll axis where it intersects the roll axis.......

but, raising the front roll center also changes the point at which the CoG acts upon the roll axis.

On a banked track, the car tends to compress the suspension more than roll over to the right. On high banks - approximately 15° and up, it can vary from car to car - the left side will actually compress slightly in the turns.

For the top joint, you'll want the equivalent of a Moog #K-6136. I believe it fits a Chevy pickup. That's about .375" longer stud than stock, which will raise the roll center. You might need to drill a bit, but it should fit.

Now, for the bottom...

The stock Metric ball joint has an O.D. on its body of 2.90". To use the longer spindled ball joints, you will have to machine up some adapters, since they all have smaller body O.D. Your local speed shop might have some already made.

The Moog K-6117 is .375" longer and the K-7025 is .500" longer....but both are smaller in body diameter than your stock joint.

Either one should work to help raise the roll center........AND, the lower ball joints will also help to lower the car, which will give you just a bit more movement on the lower control arm before it bottoms out on the chassis.

If your parts guy can help you, get out a stock Metric ball joint and compare the other two to it for O.D. and stud length.

I wouldn't consider the Chrysler screw-in for a class that uses stock spindles. By the time you finish reaming the spindle to seven degrees to accomodate the Chrysler taper, you will have lost most of the extra length with the stud fitting further up into the tapered hole.

Speaking of lowering the car, with a six-inch minimum ride height, I don't think I would be tempted to use the S-10 dropped spindles. Metric chassis front and rear geometry works fairly well at six-inches.

If you had a four-inch ride height rule, I would say go for the S-10 dropped spindles because they would drop the car two-inches, but allow the front suspension geometry to operate as if it were riding at six-inches..

B.P.