Sport's race car build

[sport.]

Hey guys I got some stock car questions for ya ,Are ya still out there?

[Bob Paulin]

Hey Sport!

Haven't heard from you in a while.

If you think the subject might be too off-topic for this forum, you can e-mail me.

I thought my e-mail addy was available in my profile, but it isn't, and, after ten minutes of floating around in my profile, I cannot figure out how to change that.  (Are you SURE you want advice from ME???)

Try:   race at gwi dot net

Change what you need to change.

Bob Paulin

[sport.]

Hey Sport!

Haven't heard from you in a while.

If you think the subject might be too off-topic for this forum, you can e-mail me.

I thought my e-mail addy was available in my profile, but it isn't, and, after ten minutes of floating around in my profile, I cannot figure out how to change that.  (Are you SURE you want advice from ME???)

Try:   race at gwi dot net

Change what you need to change.

Bob Paulin

Yes Bob I want all the advice I can get.
Bob,is that your email

[purplepickup]

If you think the subject might be too off-topic for this forum, you can e-mail me.
Bob Paulin

Yes Bob I want all the advice I can get.

Car stuff isn't off topic I hope.  There's a bunch of us around here that could learn a thing or two.  Please post your questions on here Sport

[tomslik]

If you think the subject might be too off-topic for this forum, you can e-mail me.
Bob Paulin

Yes Bob I want all the advice I can get.

Car stuff isn't off topic I hope.  There's a bunch of us around here that could learn a thing or two.  Please post your questions on here Sport

yeah, no kiddin'!
kinda hopin BP would jump in on my brake prob...

[sport.]

Ok Bob Here we go.I have been driving a hobby stock for a fella this season.It's a 85 Monte Carlo.(metric car).It handled pretty good.Then I was driving another car, It was a 75 nova Leaf spring car.All the car that were winning are usually camaro/nova clip car with leaf spring.I know they have a greater track width.But I had problem getting the Nova set up,but once it was set it was like being on rails.Them metric car was bad for breaking upper A arms I never could get set up as good as the nova.I am going to build a car for myself this winter.I have been trying to learn everything I can about camber curves,bumpsteer,roll centers etc.I am more of a driver not a setup guy.I am shopping aroung for a car and so far I have come across a Nova and Camaro.Lotsa Monte carlos and a 68 Chevelle.What would the better car be?I have also seen guys playing with angle on the upper rear 4 bar.Looks like the have cut the whole rear crossmember out and lowered it.Their is lotsa cutting and moving A-arms going on.We tried to stay withing the rules.But I have had it.I am gonna go all out and do what I have to to be competitive(CHEAT) LOL. What are you suggestionsThe track Is a 1/3 mile pretty flat about 12 degrees banking in the corner.I can try and email you a set of rules If you care to help me out.Or you can email me at chadfinley30@msn.com   I have a ton of questions if you dont mind helping me out again.Thanks

Chad

[Bob Paulin]

Chad....

If the track has a website, I don't mind going in and picking the rules up myself.

B.P.

[sport.]

Chad....

If the track has a website, I don't mind going in and picking the rules up myself.

B.P.

The website is www.flamborospeedway.itgo.com    The rules are listed under track info

The class I was running is called Thunder car.I dont mind bendin the rules now that is see what's been going on.Thanks Bob I am greatfull for any way you want to contribute.

[Bob Paulin]

Ok Bob Here we go.I have been driving a hobby stock for a fella this season.It's a 85 Monte Carlo.(metric car).It handled pretty good.Then I was driving another car, It was a 75 nova Leaf spring car.All the car that were winning are usually camaro/nova clip car with leaf spring.

I know they have a greater track width.But I had problem getting the Nova set up,but once it was set it was like being on rails.Them metric car was bad for breaking upper A arms I never could get set up as good as the nova.

Okay.....

I guess the first question is; What did you like about the Camaro that you don't like about the Metric?

What was it about adjusting the Camaro setup that is so different that you could not accomplish on the Metric ?

Go into detail...turn entry, middle, turn exit - forward bite etc.

Warning to lurkers....this could get old....fast!

I am going to build a car for myself this winter.I have been trying to learn everything I can about camber curves,bumpsteer,roll centers etc.

You might even find that you can do more with the car since you will be intimately familiar with every single nut and bolt - and you SHOULD be able to understand the whys and hows of the things you did to make it into a race car.

I am more of a driver not a setup guy.

I consider the driver to be an important part of the setup. He has to tell me what he likes and doesn't like about what the car is doing in order for me to change it to his preferences.

When it comes to chassis setup, the driver IS the setup guy, because the setup will be HIS setup.....and the final setup cannot be done by the best engineer/crewchief without driver input.....all egos considered.

I am shopping aroung for a car and so far I have come across a Nova and Camaro.Lotsa Monte carlos and a 68 Chevelle.What would the better car be?

Here's my two cents.....others may disagree, but that is no reason to start a flame war.

I prefer a coil car over a leaf spring car. Leaf springs are progressive in rate, and a leaf spring car will, eventually, go loose as the car rolls far enough.

Novice drivers like leaf spring cars for their predictability.

Most seasoned drivers I know prefer coil spring cars for their adjustability.

Usually, when you make a spring change on al eaf spring car, you also change the rear suspension geometry - even slightly.

When you change a rear coil spring, you can return the suspension to its original geometry.

Now, the 68-72 Chevelle is a nice chassis with front suspension that is very similar to the Camaro/Nova.

Parts are scarce - although, if you're willing to pay restorer prices, I guess you can come up with new stuff.

And...the Chevelle is heavier than the Metric.

Also, depending on whether or not the track is circular or shaped like a paper clip, the Chevelle wheelbases - 112" for the two-door, and 115" for the four-door and wagon chassis - could be at a slight turn disadvantage to the 108" Metric.

I'll reserve my decision on what I would choose to build until I learn a little more about the overall situation....but, I have a couple of Metrics out there holding their own against Chevelles and Camaros.

I have also seen guys playing with angle on the upper rear 4 bar.Looks like the have cut the whole rear crossmember out and lowered it.Their is lotsa cutting and moving A-arms going on.

Lowering the front of the upper arms gives you a bit more forward bite by increasing the anti-squat.

Some guys drill holes in the upper arms about an inch forward of the original at the back or axle end. This puts the upper arm in a sharper angle, pointing downward toward the front of the car - giving you the same increase in anti-squat that moving the crossmember does.

I didn't do either on my cousin's 108" Metric - although he's running against cars that have - yet he's pulling everybody out of the hole at a 1/3 mile circular track near Moncton, N.B. (He finished second in points, 12 points out of first,  this year, and won his first-ever feature race with that new car).

We did something that I would rather e-mail to you should you choose to go with the Metric.

We tried to stay withing the rules.But I have had it.I am gonna go all out and do what I have to to be competitive(CHEAT) LOL.

There are rules, and there are all those blank lines between the written rules....LOL!!!

They are changing some of the fronts around a lot to change the anti-dive, but, mostly, to accomodate the installation of the early Camaro/Nova lower control arms to widen the cars out a couple of inches..

I've not changed any fronts around, but Phat has, I believe.

You move the upper mounts, then swap the upper arms side-to-side.

What are you suggestionsThe track Is a 1/3 mile pretty flat about 12 degrees banking in the corner.I can try and email you a set of rules If you care to help me out.Or you can email me at chadfinley30@msn.com  

Let me learna  little more about the situation overall.....We've got a whole winter to build you a new car, and it looks as though I'll be building a new "improved" car for my cousin, now that I am more familiar with the way the rules are interpreted at his track under the present management.

There are things he would not allow me to do when I was building his current car because he thought it might not pass tech, but things have changed, and we'll work with those changes for the new car.

I have a ton of questions if you dont mind helping me out again.Thanks

Maybe the Fat Cat can pull some tech out of this interchange.

If this all gets too boring for the other forum members, please let us know, and we will take it private.

B.P.

[enjenjo]

At this point, I'm all ears. I like learning this stuff.

[Bob Paulin]

At this point, I'm all ears. I like learning this stuff.

Well......

.....I've just printed off the rules, and we're about to go into the phaase where I ask questions like, "When they say 'this', do they REALLY mean 'this' or is 'that' the same thing.".....

.....or, "do you think you can get this past tech?"

Might get a bit boring.....or interesting!

B.P.

[Bruce Dorsi]

Might get a bit boring.....or interesting!

===============

Keep typing, Bob! ----I'm too old to stay stoopid!

[enjenjo]

Well......

.....I've just printed off the rules, and we're about to go into the phaase where I ask questions like, "When they say 'this', do they REALLY mean 'this' or is 'that' the same thing.".....

.....or, "do you think you can get this past tech?"

I have been known to uhh... (creatively) interpret the rules a time or two myself. Still do for that matter. If it doesn't say you can't, then it's the same as saying you can right?

[Bob Paulin]

I have been known to uhh... (creatively) interpret the rules a time or two myself. Still do for that matter. If it doesn't say you can't, then it's the same as saying you can right?

That was Smokey Yunick's most-quoted line from NASCAR tech...."The rulebook didn't say that I couldn't do that.".......

.....but, the first line in the Flamboro rules reads, "If it doesn't say you can do it, you can't do it."

It will be a challenge!!

B.P.

[58 Yeoman]

Bob Paulin:

If this all gets too boring for the other forum members, please let us know, and we will take it private.

I'm with Frank on this.  I don't race cars, but it's interesting.  If someone finds it boring, they don't have to read the posts.