Sport's race car build

[sport.]

O.K I will check into the ball joints this week later this week.

I was at the track last night,boy oh boy top 2 were Metric and the rest were camaros.All the other tracks around here are closed so they had tons of cars from other tracks.So I got a good look at all the other cars.I seen some really nice stuff ,BUT I also seen alot of stuff that shouldn't be on the track.Atleast Flamboros tech men actually look for safely built cars.I seen 8 cars loaded on the trailers because they were unsafe..I seen roll cages just tacked together in spots and  fuel cells straped in with trailer straps.One guy had his seat belts bolted to a little piece o 1x1x3/16 flat bar sticking up from the cage.It makes you wonder what goes through these guy heads when they are building these things.I thought about it a bit more, I would rather run second in a safe car then win with something that if I wreaked, would prbably KILL me.

Now on to the good stuff I got a good look at the the top 2 metric cars the upper control arms were switched from side to side.Sway bars were adjustable at the control arm only.The car that won (monte carlo)Had the cage shoved back and lowered and the roof was chopped 2''.Full aluminum interior that was painted to hide the aluminum.(The only reason I know is, my buddy sponsors the car and he painted it) (LOL)motor moved back a few inches and lowered it was a REALLY REALLY nice peice.
I found out a new rule change this year is the motor can be move back so the number 1 spark plug is line up with the center of the ball joint as mentioned above when i was describing the other car.and centre line of the crankshaft must be 12'' form the ground.

How did you cousin Dan make out in the 200 lapper?

Chad

[GPster]

Hey Bob I had an interesting email today from one of my fellow competitors at Flamboro today, apparently he is watching this board,so please don't spill the beans yet(LOL)

Chad

I might be even more concaerned if the tech inspectors are reading this. GPster

[sport.]

Hey Bob I had an interesting email today from one of my fellow competitors at Flamboro today, apparently he is watching this board,so please don't spill the beans yet(LOL)

Chad

I might be even more concaerned if the tech inspectors are reading this. GPster

(LOL) I'm sure this guy will not say anything because, I know somethings about his car that arent quite right if ya know what I mean(LOL)

[sport.]

O.K guys and gals,for those who have been watching this post.I'll give ya a little update on whats been happening on the stock car project or not happening.I have the chassis here ready to be prepped it's sandblasted and ready to go.I also have the I beams ready to build my jig.Now here the real kicker.I was at work early this week,and where I work we build huge industrial fans and blowers.Anyways I was building a fan and flipping the fan wheel over with the over head crane and when the wheel was up. the grab hook broke and the 1800 lbs wheel fell on my leg(upper thigh).The only thing that saved me was I fell on a skid and the wheel fell on me .The skid acted like a cushion.(Thank God)
I didnt break any bones but I have nerve and muscle damage.So I am in a brace from the hip down and cant move to much.But we are gonna get at this thing as soon as I can stand up and move.I have collected quite alot of parts and making alot of phone call for parts and it looks like we are in pretty good shape parts wise.I'll keep going with this post if anyones still interested...

Chad

[parklane]

Chad:  Glad to hear that there is no serious damage to you leg. Someone upstairs was looking after you!! I've been following this thread, but have not commented. I'm not too far from your area, so if there is anything I can thatI can help you with, let me know.
John

[sport.]

Chad:  Glad to hear that there is no serious damage to you leg. Someone upstairs was looking after you!! I've been following this thread, but have not commented. I'm not too far from your area, so if there is anything I can thatI can help you with, let me know.
John

Thanks for the offer.It'll be a few weeks before I am out in the shop again.
Where abouts are you Parklane?Just curious.

[parklane]

I was living 5km East of Morriston on Welligton Rd 36 until the end of June. We then moved back to the St.Thomas/London area. The only person I got to know around Guelph was Rob Bolzon, who is into street rodding as I am, but it's still informative to read about anything that will help you to gain the upper edge on the competition.
John  

[sport.]

I was living 5km East of Morriston on Welligton Rd 36 until the end of June. We then moved back to the St.Thomas/London area. The only person I got to know aroud Guelph was Rob Bolzon, who is into street rodding as I am, but it's still informative to read about anything that will help you to gain the upper edge on the competition.
John  

Rob sure does have a pretty little 56 ford(LOL)I know him too.

Chad

[SKR8PN]

BTTT  till Sport gets back in the saddle

[Bob Paulin]

Without realizing it, Chad and I seem to have drifted off into a private e-mail exchange....

That was not my intention.....

Below is a recent e-mail exchange between Chad and I.

He bought a tubing bender...which resulted in some technical discussion, and he had asked me in an earlier e-mail about what I thought of using an early Chevy II body.

Let's get this thread going again!!!!!

Chad's e-mail comments are preceeded by the ">"

B.P.


> Hey Bob,
> I just thought i would give ya sort of an update.Today I started movin'
> around with crutches.

That's progress!!!

FYI - I bought a welder's apron just to use when I was sitting next to my
chassis jig welding - so sparks that landed in my lap didn't burn through.

You might want to look into an apron or welding blanket which will allow
you to stay off your leg - yet STILL do a little work.......

> Anyways I bought a tubing bender not a pipe bender.It'
> made by Pro tools.It's the ratchet style.It's used but very little.It
came
> with 4 dies (1'',1 1/2'',1 5/8'' and 1 3/4'').I paid the guy $400.00 CND.
It
> seemed to be a pretty good deal.It's like brand new.He showed me how it
> worked and it didnt wrinkle the tubing so thats a good sign..

I think you ought to lay low for a few days, because you didn't BUY that
bender, you STOLE it!!!

Did he show you how to work out the gain/loss when bending with a sample
piece??

For example, my bender "gains" eight inches on the bent leg and "loses"
3-1/2 inches on the main....so, when I'm figuring a bend, I start my bend
3-1/2-inches further out on the tubing, and allow for eight-inches less
material for the leg - making my overall piece about 4-1/2-inches shorter
when starting.

You usually work from the center of the tube when calculating bends.

IOW - if I want a hoop that measures 40-inches high and 54-inches at the
bottom of both legs, each leg is 27-inches from center.

I must start each bend 30-1/2-inches from center (adding 3-1/2-inches per
bend for loss), and my actual piece of tubing will be cut at
127-inches....which allows me an additional inch on each leg.

The math goes like this....40 + 40 + 54=134....+ 7 (loss on two bends) =
141 -16 (gain on two legs) = 125 + 2 (one extra inch on each leg for
trimming) = 127-inches.

Do you have the paperwork that comes with the bender?

Did he give you the videotape that comes with it?


>Have you had any experience with this type of  bender? What type of bender
> have you got?.

That's what I own... A Pro-Tools Model 105.

I bought the hardware from Pro-Tools and the pump and cylinder locally to
convert mine from mechanical to hydraulic - although there is absolutely
nothing wrong with using the ratcheting setup....especially if you've got
someone on the team nicknamed "Moose" or "Bear"...LOL!!!

Basic bender and one set of dies cost me $750 USD. The hydraulic conversion
cost me another $500. I saved $200-$300 by sourcing the hydraulic pump and
cylinder locally instead of buying it through Pro-Tools....but I DID buy
the  adapter kit from them.

> I might try and bend my own cage up.

You will wonder why you never did it before.......The CSC kits are very
good, but you have to remember that they have been genericized to be a
universal, "fit-all" product.

> My buddy who drove me to get the bender also started making the legs for
> the jig table.So I guess there is a little progress.(LOL) Talk to ya
soon.
>

Again....progress!!!

Dan came down this past weekend to go to the first annual Oxford Flea
Market - which was something of a bust....BUT......

.....one of the local racers
was having a "racing yard sale" which we went
to.

Dan picked up two carbon fiber doors, two carbon fiber quarters, a
fiberglass roof, a couple of fiberglass quarter windows, a Lakewood
bellhousing, a stager guage, a couple of new-lookinhg HEI distributors, and
some miscellaneous stuff for $200 - which actually made his trip
worthwhile.

At the flea market he picked up some coil springs and a bunch of rear
trailing arms for a song.

I got an aluminum wide-five to 5X5 wheel adapter for my wheel balancer at
the lawn sale, and picked up a five-inch, rebound-adjustable Carrera with a
coil-over sleeve at the flea market for $5.

Speaking of bodies, I always liked the look of the earlier Chevy II, but
you want to think about spare parts!!!!!!

I might consider using the OEM body as a pattern to bend up my own panels
out of thinner guage sheet metal. I don't think the fenders, doors and
quarters have too many compound curves in them....You up for the challenge,
Mr. Body Man?

>I did not get the paper work or the video,but ,there is a downloadable >video
>on the Pro Tools website I am gonna download.
>My bender is older than the one they show On the Pro tools wesite,But >it's hardly been used.So I think I still did alright.
>It sounds like Dan got some good deals, especially with the bellhousing...

>The Chevy II body, all I plan on using is the roof and the top parts of >the
>rear quaters and maybe the top parts of the front fenders...The rest will >be
>fabbed(trunk lid,doors interior panels maybe the hood)...I like my stuff >to
>look good and different than everyone elses.I went out and bought all >new
>cleacos today for hanging all the sheetmetal.I lent my last set of cleacos
>out and cant remember who has them?

[enjenjo]

I wondered what was happening, thought maybe Sport was still down.

Bob, on figuring the gain/loss on bends, I found with the bender we used, it changes with tube diameter, not much, but enough to put you off if you don't allow for it. So we made up some mock up bends with the bend points and centers marked to figure tube length. Made it go a bit faster, particularly since the bender was not in the same place as the car was, we were sharing it with another shop.

We also did a lot of the tube notching with a chop saw. We found if you did two angle cuts on the end of the tube, and hit it on the drum sander, for us anyway, it was faster than setting it up in the tube notcher.

Another trick we used, when tubes intersected at an odd angle, we would tack a scrap of tube in place just cut straight on the end, at the right angle, then wrap a piece of paper around the tube, mark and trim the paper so it fit tightly against the other tube, then tranfer that to the piece we were making to mark the cut. Sometimes you get a real strange shape on the end of the tube.

I'm sure you know all this Bob, but many here haven't done this before, it's for their benefit. How to do it without big $$$$$ tools.

[SKR8PN]

Glad to see this post come alive again!
Learned a lot about bending tubing
Frank,I like that idea about wrapping paper around a tube to get the proper shape! Thanks!

[sport.]

Well Guys I am still down, but not out! I am not moving very far due to surgury. But all is not lost,I had a freind come over and he has started on the jig table,so thats something.The frame is blasted and primed.So thats where I stand.On yeah I have been cleaning little parts and making lotsa phone calls.When I get out in the shop I push myself too far and boy do I pay for it.I am getting sick of wheeling my self around or tripping over these crutches.But,thats enough whining,,, I had a idea of using a 62-65 Chevy II body on the metric chassis.My buddy just happens to have a perfect donor car.maybe well'll channel it a little bit(LOL).I already ran it by the track "TECH-MEN" and they said it would be okay as long as it's steel and mounted in a stock looking fashion...So what do ya guy's think of using a 62-63 deuce body?

Chad

[Bob Paulin]

I wondered what was happening, thought maybe Sport was still down..

Actually, he IS still down quite a bit. They operated to sew the muscle back together, and he's now doing rehab....but he's fortunate enough to have friends who want to help him get started.

I understand that they are starting on building the chassis jig for him.

Bob, on figuring the gain/loss on bends, I found with the bender we used, it changes with tube diameter, not much, but enough to put you off if you don't allow for it. So we made up some mock up bends with the bend points and centers marked to figure tube length. Made it go a bit faster, particularly since the bender was not in the same place as the car was, we were sharing it with another shop..

Let me see if I can translate what the Pro-Tools people recommend....

Start with a piece of tubing three-feet long.

Make a mark 12-inches in.

Set that mark at the leading edge of the die, and bend the short side to 90°.

Now, measure the distance from the bench to the short end of the tube. In my case, the 12-inch section "grew" to 20 inches long for an eight-inch gain while the longer section went from 24-inches to 21-1/2 as measured with the short end on the bench and the "long" end sticking up so that was a 3-1/2-inch loss.

Knowing that, I can make my section that I am bending eight-inches shorter than the leg has to be once it is bent, and I must make my straight piece 3-1/2-inches longer than I need to allow for the 3-1/2-inches that will be "used up" in the bend.

I have no doubt that different size tubing along with different radius dies will result in different gains/losses. Each die set should have a test piece bent.

I write right on the die - +8 on one side and -3-1/2 on the other.

AND, there are pipefitter's "Pocket Manuals" that give you the math and additional material needed for less-than-90° bends. They only cost a few dollars at places like Barnes & Noble.

Speaking of benders, I bent a short piece of brake tubing - marking the point where it meets the hook in the bender.

I can now lay this in a tight corner with the new piece of tubing running over it, and mark the new piece of tubing exactly where I want to put the bender hook so the bend snuggles nicely into the corner.

We also did a lot of the tube notching with a chop saw. We found if you did two angle cuts on the end of the tube, and hit it on the drum sander, for us anyway, it was faster than setting it up in the tube notcher..

I cannot count the number of notches I made that way. Of course, even before that, it was the torch and a session at the bench grinder.

I now use a rotary table set vertically on my milling machine with a 1-3/4-inch roughing mill. I have a friend who uses a swivel-based machinist vise with degree markings mounted on a lathe with a similar 1-3/4-inch roughing mill.

With the milling machine, I can move the table in or out to do an offset fishmouth on that rare occasion when it is called for. With a lathe setup, you've got to shim the vise up off-center.

Another trick we used, when tubes intersected at an odd angle, we would tack a scrap of tube in place just cut straight on the end, at the right angle, then wrap a piece of paper around the tube, mark and trim the paper so it fit tightly against the other tube, then tranfer that to the piece we were making to mark the cut. Sometimes you get a real strange shape on the end of the tube..

That's an excellent way to do it. Manila file folders seem to be just the right consistency for that sort of thing. I've got several hundred NASCAR Press Kit covers from past years when I did the Busch North Series stuff that are nice for templates, too....just a bit heavier than manila folders.

Right now, however, I can usually lay a piece of tubing in place, stick a protractor or my electronic level on it, then dial the corresponding angle in on the rotary table to make the notch. Multiple tubing intersections DO require a bit more trimming, though.

There is also a set of tubing tools similar to those contour copiers that you push against something to come up with the contour so you can cut something to fit up.  

These tools come in different tubing sizes, and slide down against the intersecting piece. You then slide it back up on the tubing - or slide it onto the piece you will be using -  mark the contours, and cut.

I'm sure you know all this Bob, but many here haven't done this before, it's for their benefit. How to do it without big $$$$$ tools.

Ain't that the truth....but, if you live long enough, you often get to buy some of the tools that make life quite a bit easier.....but, most of us have done it several different ways.

B.P.

[enjenjo]

Ain't that the truth....but, if you live long enough, you often get to buy some of the tools that make life quite a bit easier.....but, most of us have done it several different ways.

I have discovered the right tool lets me do it faster, but in most cases not better. With a little thought, a hand power drill can be used as a drill press, a drill press can be used as a lathe or mill. But the real thing is faster.