Chevy starter problems

47convert · November 29, 2008, 05:31:49 AM

I have a 350 engine that used to be in my 60 ElCamino with a flywheel and a Muncie 4 speed. I replaced that engine, rebuilt this one and put it in the coupe with a 14" flexplate and a 700R4 trans, The first few times I fired it up, it started great - no starter noise, but after a few starts I noticed the ring gear had some teeth missing. I think they were gone before I installed it because the gear was a little rusty where the teeth were missing. Don't know how I missed that though - I just thought it was a good piece and never looked that close I guess. Now with an identical looking flexplate the starter comes in makes a horrible banging noise and doesn't always engage. My starter is a mini that Is supposed to be a GM unit and it worked great for years in the Elky. I took it in to a shop and they say it's good. I doo have a small brace from the front end of the stater up to the block as well. I've tried a couple of shims and it doesn't seem to make it any better - what's the plan here? I hate to change the ring gear again, but it seems to be the only variable here since this starter was on the motor in the other car.

Leon · November 29, 2008, 01:29:07 PM

You have to set the clearance with a paper clip in the root of the flywheel gear. How much clearance do you have on it now?

47convert · November 29, 2008, 08:38:57 PM

Yes. I found out today the gear on the bendix was staying engaged in the ring gear teeth. After loosening the bolts a bit it went back in. I picked up some shims today and I'll work on it tomorrow. I've had Chevy engines in probably 25 cars and never had to shim a starter before. I've heard plenty of others that needed shimming but none of mine - incredible when you think of it. Thanx.

Bruce Dorsi · November 30, 2008, 10:45:17 AM

Quote from: "47convert"Yes. I found out today the gear on the bendix was staying engaged in the ring gear teeth. After loosening the bolts a bit it went back in. I picked up some shims today and I'll work on it tomorrow. I've had Chevy engines in probably 25 cars and never had to shim a starter before. I've heard plenty of others that needed shimming but none of mine - incredible when you think of it. Thanx.

A buddy of mine installed a name-brand (Powermaster??) mini-starter on his 350 sbc and it required approx 1/8"-3/16" of shims!!! .....The starter he replaced did not require any shims.

?

57larry · November 30, 2008, 07:18:39 PM

I've shimmed many chevy starters over the years

UGLY OLDS · November 30, 2008, 10:15:41 PM

Sometimes the shim will only need to go under the inner bolt to "rock" the drive away from the ring gear...Other times a "full" shim & an inner shim is needed..It gets old after awhile..... :?

Bob.......

BFS57 · December 01, 2008, 08:59:58 AM

Hello;
Not to say that "shimming" won't help your starter problem but... I had about the same problem.
The 350 in my 57 originally came with a TH-400 Trans. The starter always sounded "wierd" until one day it stoped working and I discovered that there are two distinct starters! One had metric teeth the other has SAE teeth! In case you don't know the 700 r-4 Trans is metric ! The other trans' such as TH-350, TH-400, ecad. aren't! So before you go through shim hell, make sure you have the proper starter for the flywheel!
My 2 cents worth!

Bruce

phat rat · December 01, 2008, 09:48:01 AM

Flywheel/flexplate are motor specific not trans specific. The starter that I used on my 396/T-350 combo is now on my 454/700R4. It's also the same starter as my 02 Chev 496/Allision and my 94 350/4L60.

Jokester · December 01, 2008, 11:22:25 PM

I did the paper clip trick on my 327/TH350. It took a whole stack of shims to work right, about .120". I dug in the scrap box and found a piece about that thick and made my own shim. Still there after 3 years.

You'd be surprised at how many of those old flexplates are not round! If you keep having problems breaking starter noses, change the flexplate.

.bjb

47convert · December 02, 2008, 12:06:51 AM

Thanx for all the tips. I took the starter to my friendly starter repair shop today and he found the bendix clutch is bad. This is probably a result of the lack of shims because before I took it out I noticed the bendix gear was being held in the ring gear. As soon as I loosened it off the gear slid back.It has also broken the aluminum strap that supports the front of the starter to the little tapped hole in the raised boss on the side of the engine block. I'll need to fab a new stronger one. (after this one lasted about 3 years) Since things have been going so well for me lately, I also managed to strip the threaded stud the battery cable fastens to so I'll be needing a new solenoid while I'm at it. I did pick up some angled shims though, while I was there. The straight ones won't fit because there's a little aluminum boss on the housing that interferes. In fact even the angled ones need a slight modification. That's just a little touch with the grinder and I should be OK. Did you ever have a Hot Rod where you had to do everything twice? This car has been doing this to me from the get-go. I've never seen a project take me this long. Could be because I'm a geezer now I guess. Thanx again fellas!

47convert · December 04, 2008, 12:50:52 AM

Well, the bendix clutch was bad but it didn't solve the problem. The bendix gear doesn't seem to engage properly with the ring gear. When it goes in, it stays in. Even with 4 thick shims in place. My block is drilled for both style starter mounts, but the starter has just the angled mounting holes. Is there something about the nose cone being different on the starters with the straight across holes? The flexplate being the only variable here has me wondering because this starter worked perfectly on this same block when I had the Muncie in place.

enjenjo · December 04, 2008, 01:28:10 AM

Sounds like you are going to have to use 1/2 shims on the inner bolt only. Did you check the mesh with a paper clip? To do so, remove the solenoid so you can engage the starter drive by hand. With the drive engaged, you should be able to insert the end of the paper clip wire, about .020", between the top of the drive gear tooth, and the bottom of the gear tooth on the flex plate.

47convert · December 04, 2008, 01:51:08 AM

Thanx Frank. I did use the paper clip and there's more clearance than that, but the bendix gear stays engaged untill I loosen off the bolts and drop the starter. The teeth on the flexplate seem to be very straight cut and narrower than the starter teeth. I tried shims on the inside (along with the long ones and it didn't help. I'm really baffled. I think they may have sold me the wrong plate.

BFS57 · December 04, 2008, 08:00:30 AM

Hello again;
In my case, Although I had the TH-400 Trans the Previous Owner (Bubba) had installed a starter for that trans when in fact I had a flex for the 700r-4! I just went and got another starter for the 700r-4 and that fixed my problems! Later when I changed engine and trans, I was set with everything I needed, I just went and got a better starter for it, as I had switched motors, and the new motor was considerably tighter and the old starter was a bit on the frail side!
There is a way to find out what you have but CRS is keeping me from remembering this morning!

Bruce

47convert · December 04, 2008, 07:42:07 PM

I spent a couple of hours on this today with a mechanic buddy of mine and we still don't have it right. I shimmed it so far down (and over) it finally wouldn't engage at all. I finally pulled the flex plate and ordered a new one which should be in tomorrow. (This one was brand new a year ago and hasn't really been used since this is a progect car) but I'll try that + I'm taking the starter back to the shop to get a new drive installed complete with the gear or swap it for a rebuilt. What a pain in the butt! BTW. This is the second time I've changed a flew plate without taking the trans out. I put a couple of 3" long bolts in the bellhousing, supported the motor on a hydraulic jack and slide the tranny back about an inch. Gives you enough room to get the bolts out and slide the flexplate out and in. A lot easier than disconnecting everything and dropping the trans. My tranny crossmember is supported from tabs on the frame so that helps too.