Axle strangth?

J Man · September 12, 2007, 06:20:46 PM

What is stronger, a I beam or tube axle?

Also is there anyone that makes narrowed beam axles? Like Crosley sized narrow?

donsrods · September 12, 2007, 06:43:56 PM

My vote goes for I beam. I always thought tube axles were pretty strong until I saw this picture of a wrecked T bucket.

Don

GPster · September 12, 2007, 07:13:52 PM

I'd have to agree if every circumstance was like the one pictured. But what about the effects of welding and the fact that it is between two weld joints and the leverage that a force on the tire would have had. What about the effects of the chrome? If that was a hard and fast reason then sprint cars would have "I" beam axels. I would expect that everyone has their favorites and has there reasons but maybe your question has to be narrowed down some. Maybe the KING can tell you about the welding on one. I think the Star(?) has a narrowed axel. GPster

1FATGMC · September 12, 2007, 07:41:04 PM

Quote from: "J Man"What is stronger, a I beam or tube axle?

Also is there anyone that makes narrowed beam axles? Like Crosley sized narrow?

How you want to locate it might have an influence on which one you can use,

Sum

enjenjo · September 12, 2007, 07:43:46 PM

Stronger can mean many things. In the example above, the axle broke, but it didn't bend. My guess it was mistreated, which caused it to break. Bad welding, improper heat treat, and improper repairs could cause it.

I have never seen an axle break under normal use, tube or I beam, but it's certainly possible.

Am I beam will bend easier than a tube, and can be straightened in most cases.

I have used both, and will continue to do so.

wayne petty · September 12, 2007, 09:27:56 PM

wow what an image..i do realize that the T bucket impacted an object..

i'm thinking of hydrogen embrittlement, no stress relieving at all on a chrome moly part.... i'am not a metalergest but i am also not an ostrage.

chrome moly parts need to be stressrelieved. that means baking at 1100F or so... for several hours. this allows the stresses put into the chrome moly by welding need to be evened out..welding changes the hardness of the metal accdording to the distance from the weld.. chrome moly will not usually crack unreleived close to the weld, an inch or more away is the norm...this depends on the heat involved in the weld...

the area next to the welds has a differnt temper. than the areas away from the welds... chrome moly is raw is not finished... it needs additional work to gain it's ultimate strength and durability

your childrens and grandchildrens chrome moly bicycle motorcross forks are made out of chrome moly... look up broken fork .com your loved ones have been sacrified to save some heat treeting. rembember the word. "endo" ...

back to the rant... if i have said to much please delete this post...

properly heat treeted /stress releived chrome moly can be bent 180 degrees without breaking...even through welded joints..

i called nhra when T/F,F/C frames started breaking...i saw the video of the accident that paralized the T/F pilot during a run in england... they told me SFI writes the spects. they told me that chassie mfgs use reverse polairty to pull the heat out of the welds so nothing else is necessary....

i on my own a few years ago found several heat treeting companys around the country that have ovens big enough to place a complete top fuel chassie..and were willing to do it.... they specialized in aircraft parts... my calls even got a responce from don garlits in drive magazine...who still missed my point about heat treeting in his editoral. just double up the tubes.

so everybody who cares, do a little research on hydrogen embrittlement of chromed parts... and stress releiving of chrome moly parts used in critical load carrying componants...

oh yea...

and does anybody make airodynamic covers from i beam axles to cut down on the drag at speed... i guess nobody have ever seen the airodymamic chrome moly tubing at aircraft spruce....

kb426 · September 12, 2007, 10:13:34 PM

Wayne, I'm pretty sure that someone at NHRA was full of it. The standard has always been to take a rosebud and heat the area around the weld until you could melt a temp chalk. I can't remember now but it was either 500 or 600 degrees. I was told when I started building cars in 1977 that the roll cage area was all that needed to be relieved. From years of building cars, the only real problem I saw was when a car wasn't suspended properly in a trailer when hauling. I blocked mine so it couldn't move. 4130 has a definant life span so everything you do to stabilize a chassis from moving will help. I'm sure that complete stress relieving would help but it's out of reach for most racers and builders.

Crosley.In.AZ · September 12, 2007, 10:40:24 PM

I seem to recall reading an article on stress relieving a chassis for sprint cars(?) that involved the use of a table that the chassis sat on for an hour or 3. I do not recall what was used to relieve the chassis stress..

This was used to make the chassis more 'neutral' and easier to tune to the track surface.

tomslik · September 13, 2007, 05:11:11 AM

Quote from: "Crosley"I seem to recall reading an article on stress relieving a chassis for sprint cars(?) that involved the use of a table that the chassis sat on for an hour or 3. I do not recall what was used to relieve the chassis stress..

This was used to make the chassis more 'neutral' and easier to tune to the track surface.

was it a "vibration " table?
ultrasonic, perhaps?

btw, i've always thought mild steel was better for the common guy and for street use.

tom36 · September 13, 2007, 08:55:59 AM

Since we are talking axles here, anyone want to chime in on forged vs cast I beams as to pro and cons? Henrys were forged, right? Tom...

Dave · September 13, 2007, 09:23:27 AM

Quote from: "tom36"Since we are talking axles here, anyone want to chime in on forged vs cast I beams as to pro and cons? Henrys were forged, right? Tom...

If i remember right from discussions on the HAMB super bell are cast and C/E are forged ? I know there is a difference and ive used em both but i tend to like the S/B axle better.. As far as that tube axle it sure looks brittle to me? I wonder how it got that way but its not mine so I dont have to worry...

The only tube axles I like are the ones with the cast ends welded into the tube. We have a guy at work here that had a t bucket and im thinking it was a Total performance kit . I do know it was a kit and the axle had the eyes for the king pins welded on the ends of the axle. He just got off the highway one day and came to a stop when one side broke right off the axle.. :!: That scares the hell outta me just thinking about it . :!: Also if you go with a tube axle with the cast or forged ends however they do it that are welded in most of el accept regular perch pins and stuff so you dont have to do any more welding on the axle that could cause brittleness etc. That axle even though it broke broke where the most load is outside the spring mounts.. And if the guy did hit something as it looks that way if it just broke the axle then good for him.. break away stuff just like racing :!:
Dave

kb426 · September 13, 2007, 06:09:17 PM

Dave and I followed the same thread on the HAMB. The CE axle is the only forging on the market. I'm a believer in forgings over castings so I bought a CE. Dave, why do you prefer SuperB?

Dave · September 13, 2007, 06:38:46 PM

Quote from: "kb426"Dave and I followed the same thread on the HAMB. The CE axle is the only forging on the market. I'm a believer in forgings over castings so I bought a CE. Dave, why do you prefer SuperB?

I knew someone would ask that.. Lay em out one on top of the other.. The C/E is a really heavy axle The S/B is a lighter axle. Its more the size of henrys origonal axle and i believe it gives a better ride :?: Maybe more flex :?: I had a C/E under my 30 a sedan and it rode ok but it looked heavy and was heavier than S/B ............. So unsprung weight and sprung weight and yada yada yada... Also ive run a few of em and no problems ever.. Maybe its an appearence thing too.
Dave
ps: the best riding car I ever built had a Mor drop Origional model a axle dropped like 2 1/2 and I had speedway motors t bucket coils in the rear with home made mounts for the coils and shocks.. Really it rode good and you could go 120 and take your hands of the wheel..

kb426 · September 13, 2007, 07:02:09 PM

Glad I'm building a truck so it won't look out of place.

Dave · September 13, 2007, 07:59:35 PM

Quote from: "kb426"Glad I'm building a truck so it won't look out of place.

It will look fine.. i ran one under the 30 a sedan .. I did have fenders though..
Its just an eye candy thing for some but I really do think the S/B axles give a better ride cause of the weight.. Just remember im not that smart but i do know seat of the pants feel..
Dave