Frame kick-up

[Rayvyn]

If this is a mock-up, then that is something different altogether. What are the circumstances regarding the photograph?

I don't believe it's a mock-up. From what I can tell it's a finished deal. Here's the car in question. He's also welded the body to the frame. The motor is strictly for reference and measurement.

[Dave]

If this is a mock-up, then that is something different altogether. What are the circumstances regarding the photograph?

I don't believe it's a mock-up. From what I can tell it's a finished deal. Here's the car in question. He's also welded the body to the frame. The motor is strictly for reference and measurement.

Ah your lookin on egay..I checked that out too and when i read he welded the body to the frame that was enuff for me.........
Dave

[Dave]

I noticed this rod-in-progress yesterday. Taking a look at the pics I noticed a kick-up in the back of the frame. I'm not too well versed on Redneck frame building, and I'm wondering if this is structurally sound, if this was a beginners attempt at doing this because he couldn't cut or figure correct angles, or whether it's an old school method... :?:

I wouldnt have mounted the shocks straight up either they should be at an angle. Im supprised no one caught that. Ya I know its done like that all the time but it aint right.
Dave

what else would you do when the springs are on the outside?

they're not helper springs.....

Ya lost me there?  The only time coil overs are usually mounted straight up is on a pro street car where the rear end is really narrow and they cant get any angle on em.  Most all the other guys including me mount em on an angle pointing in towards the top. I cant remember the thoery behind it but its supposed to be the proper way to do it. Of course ive been wrong before and ill admit to it .............
Dave

[phat46]

That's how i did the front kickup on my "40 Pick up. I stacked the lower frame rail, another section of the same tubing, and the top frame rail on each other and tacked them in place. Of course I had cut them all at a 45* angle and I made plates of 1/4' stock, bent to cover the open ends and lap onto the rails a few inches, for both top and bottom. I had my brother, the structural steel welder come over and fill in the sides where the tubing edges round over with a couple passes and weld all the way around the plates i made for top and bottom. I asked if he thought it would bestrong enough; he smiled and said "That's the strongest part of the frame now" I attached a pic, you can see the kickup under the front of the cab, right ahead of the exhaust going under the cab. It only took a little grinding and a finger smear of putty to make it look like one piece.

[Rayvyn]

I checked that out too and when i read he welded the body to the frame that was enuff for me.........
Dave

My guess is, he dropped the motor in so he could weld up the mounts, then shoved the body forward, allowing an inch for clearance, then welded the body fast.
I don't see any crossbars for attaching a floor either.
The top of the rear radius rods look flush with the top of the frame, so any floor would have to be built up above that, I figure at least 2", to allow for rod travel.
About the only good the rumble seat area would be for is a gas tank and battery.
Even though it's missing the floor, the body doesn't look too shabby. Unless the stock crossbars for the floor were rotted out, which means the lower portion of the body might be shot, but you can't tell from the pics.
Buyer beware... :!:

[donsrods]

I certainly wouldn't want to impune another rodder's work, and I'm glad it worked out well for you on your truck, but I have to stand by my original feeling that doing it that way just isn't the proper method.  Yes, it is a means to an end, and yes it will probably never be a problem, but I can guarantee you that no pro shop would ever build or modify a frame using that stacked system.  Even if you plated the entire outside of the pieces of tubing with flat plate, it still wouldn't look or be as good as a simple kick up.

I know it it a little more work to get the proper angles worked out, but the reason you see Total Performance, Speedway, and everyother frame done this way is because it is the only truly correct method.

Please forgive me if my comments go contrary to your feelings, but I also realize a lot of beginning rodders frequent this site, and they need to know the absolutely best ways to build cars.  We are seeing a lot of very questionable construction coming from the rat rod movement, ( and I am one who likes rat rods) but some of the things being done are just downright dangerous, and contrary to proper construction methods.

JMO.


Don

[donsrods]

I certainly wouldn't want to impune another rodder's work, and I'm glad it worked out well for you on your truck, but I have to stand by my original feeling that doing it that way just isn't the proper method.  Yes, it is a means to an end, and yes it will probably never be a problem, but I can guarantee you that no pro shop would ever build or modify a frame using that stacked system.  Even if you plated the entire outside of the pieces of tubing with flat plate, it still wouldn't look or be as good as a simple kick up.

I know it it a little more work to get the proper angles worked out, but the reason you see Total Performance, Speedway, and everyother frame done this way is because it is the only truly correct method.

Please forgive me if my comments go contrary to your feelings, but I also realize a lot of beginning rodders frequent this site, and they need to know the absolutely best ways to build cars.  We are seeing a lot of very questionable construction coming from the rat rod movement, ( and I am one who likes rat rods) but some of the things being done are just downright dangerous, and contrary to proper construction methods.

JMO.


Don

PS:  Yes, the springs should be mounted on an angle to act as sway controlers, and also look at his motor mounts. I blew up the picture. They are simply a single round piece of tubing welded solid at the top and sort of bushed at the bottom.  I feel one small tube is not enough to hold an engines torque and vibrations.

[tomslik]

I noticed this rod-in-progress yesterday. Taking a look at the pics I noticed a kick-up in the back of the frame. I'm not too well versed on Redneck frame building, and I'm wondering if this is structurally sound, if this was a beginners attempt at doing this because he couldn't cut or figure correct angles, or whether it's an old school method... :?:

I wouldnt have mounted the shocks straight up either they should be at an angle. Im supprised no one caught that. Ya I know its done like that all the time but it aint right.
Dave

what else would you do when the springs are on the outside?

they're not helper springs.....

Ya lost me there?  The only time coil overs are usually mounted straight up is on a pro street car where the rear end is really narrow and they cant get any angle on em.  Most all the other guys including me mount em on an angle pointing in towards the top. I cant remember the thoery behind it but its supposed to be the proper way to do it. Of course ive been wrong before and ill admit to it .............
Dave

ok, take a good look at the shock/spring arrangement.
they're NOT coilovers, just a shock thru the middle of a coil spring.
usta see t-buckets like that ALL the time...


ok, so i'm *' blind, they ARE coilovers and yer right, they would function better at an angle BUT!,soften the shocks and run an anti-roll bar (sway bar)....

[tomslik]

I certainly wouldn't want to impune another rodder's work, and I'm glad it worked out well for you on your truck, but I have to stand by my original feeling that doing it that way just isn't the proper method.  Yes, it is a means to an end, and yes it will probably never be a problem, but I can guarantee you that no pro shop would ever build or modify a frame using that stacked system.  Even if you plated the entire outside of the pieces of tubing with flat plate, it still wouldn't look or be as good as a simple kick up.

I know it it a little more work to get the proper angles worked out, but the reason you see Total Performance, Speedway, and everyother frame done this way is because it is the only truly correct method.

Please forgive me if my comments go contrary to your feelings, but I also realize a lot of beginning rodders frequent this site, and they need to know the absolutely best ways to build cars.  We are seeing a lot of very questionable construction coming from the rat rod movement, ( and I am one who likes rat rods) but some of the things being done are just downright dangerous, and contrary to proper construction methods.

JMO.


Don

PS:  Yes, the springs should be mounted on an angle to act as sway controlers, and also look at his motor mounts. I blew up the picture. They are simply a single round piece of tubing welded solid at the top and sort of bushed at the bottom.  I feel one small tube is not enough to hold an engines torque and vibrations.

ever look under a chevelle?
how about ANYTHING OEM with coil springs?
can't say as i've ever seen a coil spring at much of an angle and i can tell ya for a FACT a chevelle's ain't...
what he's got (as far as rear suspesion) will work.
it's NOT going canyon racing for * sure...

[phat46]

I certainly wouldn't want to impune another rodder's work, and I'm glad it worked out well for you on your truck, but I have to stand by my original feeling that doing it that way just isn't the proper method.  Yes, it is a means to an end, and yes it will probably never be a problem, but I can guarantee you that no pro shop would ever build or modify a frame using that stacked system.  Even if you plated the entire outside of the pieces of tubing with flat plate, it still wouldn't look or be as good as a simple kick up.

I know it it a little more work to get the proper angles worked out, but the reason you see Total Performance, Speedway, and everyother frame done this way is because it is the only truly correct method.

Please forgive me if my comments go contrary to your feelings, but I also realize a lot of beginning rodders frequent this site, and they need to know the absolutely best ways to build cars.  We are seeing a lot of very questionable construction coming from the rat rod movement, ( and I am one who likes rat rods) but some of the things being done are just downright dangerous, and contrary to proper construction methods.

JMO.


Don

No offence taken, everyone has their opinions and ideas on how to do things. I have always thought that for nearly everything there is more thatn one way to do it correctly. It is actually no more work to get the proper angles to butt weld the tubing together, 22.5 degrees for each piece, as it is to make the 45's on the full tubes. I understand that the pros, making many copies of the same frame would simply build a jig and cut stock to put in the jig and weld away. I did use the butt welded method on the rear kickup, and even plated on the sides I feel it is not as strong as the front kickup. I had to use the butt weld method on the rear due to the height of the kickup, 13" and the fact that it had to be a 90 degree angle to clear the cab and bed.  I have attached an simple drawing of my method of stacking and welding the tubing. It is 7 gauge, (3/16".) tubing. Due to the fact that the tubing has rounded edges it makes a perfect  "bevel" to weld in. We did a triple pass on these areas, a wide root weld and one filler weld on each side of the root. the finish weld was thicker than the original tubing wall even when ground smooth with the tubing sides. The tubing was welded  along both sides and across each end, that were beveled back to allow the weld to remain after the tube ends were ground to allow the re-enforce ment plate to lie flush with the tube ends.the plates were then welded entirely around their perimeters, again taking advantage of the rounded edge of the tubing to allow the weld to remain after grinding.   I feel that if the simple butt joints are adequate, which i believe they are, then what I did was overkill. I think it's also important to teach young rodders how to do things correctly, even if it's not the way the "Big" guys do it. It's just as important for them  to think things through and find a solution that works as well or better than the "accepted" methods.

[Ornberg]

Looks very solid to me.

Per

[Ornberg]

What you think about this "C-framing bolt on kit" that many low rider guy uses :?:

Per

[EMSjunkie]

I guessin' you didn't find anything to spend the taxpayers dollars on in L'ville  

there is a company not too awful far from you that sells fiberglass "replicars" for as little as $129.00 per month.  

so why wait, get started now building your dream car

like you said Bry, let the buyer beware :!:


Vance

[Dave]

I guessin' you didn't find anything to spend the taxpayers dollars on in L'ville  

there is a company not too awful far from you that sells fiberglass "replicars" for as little as $129.00 per month.  

so why wait, get started now building your dream car

like you said Bry, let the buyer beware :!:


Vance

Ya know sometimes I cant believe your still alive Vance  
Sprint car races tomorrow and saturday buddy...
Eat your heart out.........
Dave

[EMSjunkie]

I guessin' you didn't find anything to spend the taxpayers dollars on in L'ville  

there is a company not too awful far from you that sells fiberglass "replicars" for as little as $129.00 per month.  

so why wait, get started now building your dream car

like you said Bry, let the buyer beware :!:


Vance

Ya know sometimes I cant believe your still alive Vance  
Sprint car races tomorrow and saturday buddy...
Eat your heart out.........
Dave

Me too Dave, me too.
I figger I can outrun him in a short sprint

have fun at the races, take some pictures, will ya!
did you ever get your Alliance tag mounted?

Vance