Model A job

[idrivejunk]

So, whats the silent treatment for? I might as well be posting to a fence. I guess it beats you guys speaking your mind about my pace. Any Americans still looking at this? We all know what a Model A looks like already, I know.

[rumrumm]

That's metal flake extreme on the station wagon!!

[enjenjo]

So, whats the silent treatment for? I might as well be posting to a fence. I guess it beats you guys speaking your mind about my pace. Any Americans still looking at this? We all know what a Model A looks like already, I know.

I find that when grinding the edge of a door to make gaps, or when building up the edge of a door for the same reason, I fusion weld the edge with a small acetylene torch held at right angles to the skin. I just work the edge of the flame on the edge, and add filler rod as needed, going over it as many times as needed to get the shape that I want. You can clamp a piece of bar stock on the face as a heat sink to control warpage.

You can also use the bar stock when grinding the edge. Grind the face, then move the bar stock to where you want the new edge. Clamp in place, and grind to the bar stock. It gives you a nice straight edge.

[chimp koose]

Kind of on the home stretch eh . It must feel good putting it back together for one last time .

[idrivejunk]

Thank for stopping in, gents.  Roof insert sure does lay better if it is underneath the quarters.

[kb426]

Watching this has changed my perspective about model a's. I'll look at them differently to see how un-symmetrical they are.

[idrivejunk]

Watching this has changed my perspective about model a's. I'll look at them differently to see how un-symmetrical they are.

A metal shaper guy said "We all know they are all a half inch taller on the right." but he never answered as to where within the panel the difference is. The seam between top and bottom half is horizontal, above the body line but below the side window. To me, it appears to be a fusion weld or whatever its called when you butt two edges, jam them together tight then turn loose the electrons. The amount of welding heat or the tension on the holding fixture could vary the height, if so. Thats my theory anyway.

I have the crooked rear view corrections all spotted, I also believe. Right rear roof corner radius is goofed, I will slice and dice to correct. Body line end on right quarter at window panel has goofed step at top. Bottom of roll pan needs to be pulled down on left end before tacking. Addressing those things should bring me to a point of sufficient eyeball symmetry to be able to tell the roof insert and sides exactly where to be.

Messed up pics last post, heres the one you missed due to the double dip flub up

[jaybee]

It's staggering to think how far fit and finish have come since those days. What you've done to turn this thing symmetrical and gapped properly is enormous. Compare that to new cars. The cheapest of them have tight, consistent gaps which would be the envy of a Cadillac from the 1960s.

[idrivejunk]

It's staggering to think how far fit and finish have come since those days. What you've done to turn this thing symmetrical and gapped properly is enormous. Compare that to new cars. The cheapest of them have tight, consistent gaps which would be the envy of a Cadillac from the 1960s.

I was hunting for a page that would explain what happened in the auto manufacturing process that changed this. I was reminded that it was, of all people... Pontiac that implemented the change. At the Pontiac Plant. In Pontiac. On a Pontiac.

If a person researches the terms "space frame" and "mill and drill" as they apply to unibody construction, immediately it becomes obvious. I-CAR, Shark measuring equipment, and of course GM training sessions all introduced me to the theory many years ago.

A space frame (inner structure) is assembled and mounted on a very complex fixture referencing door openings, then attaching points for outer skin panels are all made by the fixed attachments on that fixture. This means even if the space frame construction is less than 100% accurate, the attaching points will be. On every car. A pad where the attaching point goes is located on the space frame and provides an area within which the attaching point can be anywhere. So the inner structure is "within a range" and attaching points are always a bullseye even if they end up on a corner of the pad.

The effect is not strictly for looks or ease of manufacture. It makes a car which is less likely to kill you in a wreck.A 60s Cadillac could send the hood corner through your face in a moderate frontal impact.

In a loose way, if you squint at it hard and use your imagination, similarities can be spotted in the approach I have taken and it seems natural to me because of my background. Even at this point, I suspect my door gaps will need to be much tighter. And theres a simple way to make that so.

In the page linked below, the bottom image and paragraph shed a little light on the subject:

http://www.fierofocus.com/articles/art-fiero-history.html

[idrivejunk]

Howzabout I jump right in the middle of what I just rambled sbout?    Read on

This morning I once again straightedged quarters, doors, and cowl at gaps to get to some truth. Wasn't bad but passenger door needed about a foot long correction by trimming at bottom front-









Then I moved the cowl rearward (yep, thats whut I sed) to tighten the whole gap up and scooted the door back a smidge-



Now step back. Ain't that better?  



Well hush my mouth and call me corn pone! Thats a 3/16" ("averaged") gap. No more quarter inch spots of breathing room. Just right for eliminating the washers under the striker, too.



Hoping this moves me toward the "like a fox" side of crazy a little. This was in mind the whole time, I just needed to see where things ended up at this stage. Mike likes them a smidge wide because mud and paint always haunts him in the end with tight spots. Boss wanted the cut and close gap maneuver. I think this way looks much better. Heres what I did, in case you can't decode all that-

I cut here and here-





Like so. Only moved each corner of the cowl rearward by a cutoff wheel's width or two. I'd cut 'em, jam 'em back together, tack (see below), then trench out for another weld. That was enough to wash away the quarter inch blues. No need for all the excess rattle room now-



This side still lacks a little nip and weld per the straightedge-



But! Overall, these new door end gap widths please everyone so far, including me.The door to roof gaps are still not flush but the space is OK.







Also, before removing the roof insert today I checked it crossways with a straightedge and moving front to rear. Its really good on the rib height, actually. Straightedge contacts center rib only at the ends, then three as you move toward center, then all five. Evenly, as it should be. The center rib has a two or three inch very shallow low spot just behind the B pillar flat area. Not enough for me to want to mess it up with a hammer. Easy mud fix but I can also shuffle padding over the inner structure.

So I am not too awful worried about the roof but must get the roof sides' roundness to match up before trimming for the insert. Here is the insert supported for inside sanding. Yes, it is that curved. Don't look that way right side up but that tells you how delicate it is. The middle flat spot is probably from just being in a box stood on end.

[jaybee]

It's staggering to think how far fit and finish have come since those days. What you've done to turn this thing symmetrical and gapped properly is enormous. Compare that to new cars. The cheapest of them have tight, consistent gaps which would be the envy of a Cadillac from the 1960s.

I was hunting for a page that would explain what happened in the auto manufacturing process that changed this. I was reminded that it was, of all people... Pontiac that implemented the change. At the Pontiac Plant. In Pontiac. On a Pontiac.

In the page linked below, the bottom image and paragraph shed a little light on the subject:

http://www.fierofocus.com/articles/art-fiero-history.html

Thanks for bringing that into the conversation. Now that you mention it I remember this clearly from the introduction of the Fiero. I loved the concept at the time because I admired the extreme precision of how it brought all the body panel mounts into perfect alignment with each other...as a unit in 3 dimensions.

To me the Fiero represents all the strengths and weaknesses of the American car industry in one vehicle. To sell a tiny sports car to upper management they had to disguise it as a 2 seater commuter car. Extremely innovative thinking allowed them to build a really nice little car at an excellent price point, and they flew out of the showrooms.

They did until the Toyota MR2 came along, anyway. The MR2 was a real sports car, with real sports car handling. It was a better car in very way, and should have been for its much higher price point. GM Marketing saw a little two seater selling for a much higher price and promptly jacked up the price of the Fiero to match. That killed the Fiero. Now it was an overpriced little car which didn't have the specs to compete against the MR2. Oh, and when they stuffed a V6 in it was a good move but the swap was poorly engineered and they tended to catch fire.

The last year finally had specs to match the new, higher price but it was too late. The damage to the model's reputation was done. Sales had dropped by over two thirds.

Fiero fans loved them and kept driving them for years after they were off the market.

Much like Saturn fans.

[idrivejunk]

You got that right, holding stuff in the right place while you do other stuff is a biggie. You'll enjoy this part...    

I pulled the T strips out of the scrap pile and made matching templates-  





I have this side roughly tacked but matching the template-  







This side left to go-



That ought to make a whale of a difference and make it look all the more authentic.    The roof support frame can easily adapt.

Roof underside got a shot of epoxy so look out  :!:

[chimp koose]

I found a neat tool that might help make templates easier . It is a plastic contour gage that tile setters use . I got one at home depot for about ten bucks and its about a foot long . It really helped me get my dented drivers 1/4 panel to match the other side. You could just shove it on and trace the contour , repeat farther down and match it up for longer than a foot cardboard contour gage.

[idrivejunk]

Well, since it is chopped the template had to be shorter than the T strip. And I would need two to match what I am doing here. All I wanted was some of the straight vertical line to be there, the angle and  height I'll check with a straightedge, level, etc. Just can't get a pic of myself holding it up there.  All that matters is that the templates are level with each other and that the flat area sits at the same angle. Boss had a contour gauge, it was finally broken too much to use. These templates were as easy as being sure strips match each other, drawing around one, cutting two. Can't get much more sure fire or simple.

[chimp koose]

I guess thats the difference between a trained eye and me ! I made a horizontal line on both 1/4 panels at the same height and then vertical lines every inch , measured from the back of the door frame to use as comparison points for the gage . I come at body work from a machinist background so I rely on measuring rather than my very untrained eye.