95 olds just dies

wayne petty · October 14, 2010, 08:48:10 PM

the Z connector you are talking about...

is probably one cavity in the connector that connects the computer harness to the cars harness that leads over to the cluster area..

i have a really stupid question... and its stupid on my part....
as i forgot to ask it...

this model uses a slide type ignition switch... and the edges of the contracts can burn...

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/wl2/LS644/image/4/

tell you what.. unhook the battery... work the ignition switch 50 or 100 times.... then hook the battery back up... try it then...

working the switch without current will many times clean the contacts as the current is not passing through to continue the arcing/ carboning up...

have you changed the electrical part of the ignition switch...

so.. follow the harness at the ECM... within a foot it will have about 5 or 8 wires that take off out the side and connect to the car... there will be a pink and a orange wire in there along with black. i will have to go back and look at the full system harness diagram back a few pages...

i am 99% sure that the connector dangling upper right in this image you took is the I/P connector as the pink wire and orange wires are there...

http://www.roddingroundtable.com/forums/download.php?id=8599

wayne petty · October 14, 2010, 09:02:20 PM

i seem to recall that you bought a logic probe....

can you monitor the flashes of you test light.. when probing the circuits from the crank and cam sensor wires . and on the power circuit to it..

perhaps check the power on the circuits as you rotate the key slowly through its motions... to see if you have any current drop outs...

did you also clean the grounds on the stud at the bell housing???

i think i missed out another important piece of info..

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/68/88/large/0996b43f80216888.gif

this is the complete engine control harness diagram

looks like you could monitor power at the canister purge solenoid pink wire... that wire also seems to run several other items... like the O2 sensor heater... how are the wires to that.. and the digital EGR assy...

rooster · October 15, 2010, 09:47:33 PM

Quote from: "wayne petty"the Z connector you are talking about...

is probably one cavity in the connector that connects the computer harness to the cars harness that leads over to the cluster area..

i have a really stupid question... and its stupid on my part....
as i forgot to ask it...

this model uses a slide type ignition switch... and the edges of the contracts can burn...

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/wl2/LS644/image/4/

tell you what.. unhook the battery... work the ignition switch 50 or 100 times.... then hook the battery back up... try it then...

working the switch without current will many times clean the contacts as the current is not passing through to continue the arcing/ carboning up...

have you changed the electrical part of the ignition switch...

so.. follow the harness at the ECM... within a foot it will have about 5 or 8 wires that take off out the side and connect to the car... there will be a pink and a orange wire in there along with black. i will have to go back and look at the full system harness diagram back a few pages...

i am 99% sure that the connector dangling upper right in this image you took is the I/P connector as the pink wire and orange wires are there...

http://www.roddingroundtable.com/forums/download.php?id=8599

I found the Z connector its on left side of glove box, right next to it is 3 inline fuse's , the wire from it gos to locations like you said. I will power prob this area when I get the right wire, see if there is a difference.

I will try the key trick after I do the min/max measurment coming from ign stw. We have done no work on the ign stw.

The Logic circut tester works on both signal wires , slow on camsensor feed and fast on 24x crank feed.

I have cleaned all the grounds I can find, dont see any eng to body though!

Went Junk yard shopping today exchanged computer picked up few other things.
I came home and installed the computer...............Now the the DTC PO431 is not set< instead I get DTC PO321, the Autoxray reads:
Ignition Distriubter
Engine speed
Input circut
Input circut range
ranage/performance

The light in the dash comes on immediately, first couple of revs.

I might put the orignal computer back in just to see if it comes up with this new code, I may have bumped the right wire under the dash. Are the computer has just lost some of its marbels!

Thanks for the help.

wayne petty · October 15, 2010, 09:59:25 PM

both sensors are fed by the same pink wire..

inline fuse?

is it an ATO fuse.. or an ATM mini fuse...

or a glass fuse..

how about building a test rig...

fuse leg one..------- inline fuse holder..------- banana plug > volt meter amp port.

fuse leg two -----------------------------------banana plug > volt meter common plug..

this will be a HANDY tool... use a blown fuse.. the fuse holder is to prevent burned wires if something shorts...

rooster · October 21, 2010, 10:57:48 AM

Quote from: wayne pettyboth sensors are fed by the same pink wire..

inline fuse? is it an ATO fuse.. or an ATM mini fuse...

or a glass fuse..

how about building a test rig...

fuse leg one..------- inline fuse holder..------- banana plug > volt meter amp port.

fuse leg two -----------------------------------banana plug > volt meter common plug..

this will be a HANDY tool... use a blown fuse.. the fuse holder is to prevent burned wires if something shorts...[/quote

It took me awhile to figure out there is only 1 pink wire coming to the Z connector.

Don't know what you mean by blowen fuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On test rig.

I got the homemade work around harness installed and hooked up for the cam and crank 24x sensors. po341 and po321 are not present for now. Car starts and runs well. (driveway)

Now I get P1640 and P1650. I think I caused this , I tapped (cut) into the pink wire at Z connector for the new harness, I didnt re-connect wire leading to under the hood, it powers other things besides the sensors! I noticed the cooling fan did not come on, so that must be it , the relay connection. I think this threw the code. Go at it again today.

I tryed getting a min/max reading at ign feed at the computer, I get 5.3vdc running and car will die at about 4.7vdc. Reading sound low to me. dont know what they should be.
Would like to do a min/max at ignition stw. I did the key trick about 100 time but noticed no difference.

wayne petty · October 21, 2010, 03:14:17 PM

denny... can you find the 4 wire connector to the HEATED oxygen sensor. and unplug it... its under the car or somewhere near the exhaust..

i seem to recall that the Pink wire also powers the O2 sensor heater circuit..

if that heater is drawing to much power it will do like you have.. reduced voltage...

i don't have time to look back at the wiring diagram right this second..

i think we are getting really close..

that pink wire runs several devices...

here is the diagram.. is was back a few...

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/68/88/large/0996b43f80216888.gif

items run off the pink wire

canister purge solenoid...

heated oxygen sensor

digital EGR assembly..

camsaft position sensor

crankshaft position sensor

so you have 5 items to unplug to see if the circuit comes back up to normal voltage levels...

if you pull the fuse.... what power do you get on the hot side....

can you rig a special fuse to measure amp draw??? with an inline fuse???

either you have something taking to much current and drawing the supply voltage down.. or

a problem with the ignition switch circuit that is supplying the voltage to that circuit...

i am going to look later tonight at my 97 mitchell manual ...

rooster · October 22, 2010, 01:01:58 AM

I'll have to get to it tommoro. I quickely tryed a clamp meter around those small wire and got no reading.

Is this the test rig? (pict)

Looks like I will have to cut wires to use it. The small pink wires I believe just power the coils in the relays. Where should I test at???

I got this print out from libary on what is supplyed. (Below)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

wayne petty · October 22, 2010, 01:31:30 AM

this is an amp tester that plugs into the fuse...

http://images.solidcactus.com/autobarn/xxxw-esi305m.jpg

the yellow thing you see in the side is a fuse.. usually the same one you have removed from the circuit you are testing.. to prevent the smoke from escaping the wires...

chop the back corners off a blown fuse... solder wires to it...

on one side.. crimp on an insulated 1/4" female crimp on.. that plugs into the safety fuse.. another 1/4 inch female insulated crimp on to another piece of wire...

some banana jacks from radio shack.. those plug into the amp test ports of the volt meter..

Stackable Banana plugs (2-Pack)
Model: 274-734 | Catalog #: 274-734 $3.29

if you don't have a blown fuse.... solder the wires to the top corners you have cut away.. then touch both wires to the battery terminals.. the fuse will blow ..

this is a tool you will use and use again... so spend a few minutes to make it...

oh... i was wondering about the other circuits.. i am glad you found that image with the power to the relay coils on the same...

you can ohm them easily..

do test the circuit with the fuse out.. see if you get full battery voltage on it..

Fat Cat · October 22, 2010, 05:38:08 PM

Wanye I got one of these

http://www.tooltopia.com/electronic-specialties-303b.aspx?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=ESI303B&utm_campaign=googlebase_18u

through Napa. It does the same thing as you describe with being able to connect a fuse circuit to a multimeter. I have one for ATC fuses and another for ATM fuses.

wayne petty · October 22, 2010, 05:44:36 PM

Quote from: "Fat Cat"Wanye I got one of these

http://www.tooltopia.com/electronic-specialties-303b.aspx?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=ESI303B&utm_campaign=googlebase_18u

through Napa. It does the same thing as you describe with being able to connect a fuse circuit to a multimeter. I have one for ATC fuses and another for ATM fuses.

wow.. i never even dreamed them being on sale for under 10 bucks..

they seem to be 18 at napa... still a good deal..

ATM Circuit Tester Fuse Adapter
Product Line: Balkamp Part Number:       BK 7823304

Features & Benefits      Takes Current Measurements Directly From Fuse Socket By Providing Good, Electrical Connection, Fits Snug & Tight In Socket, Remains Protected By Using Existing Fuse w/ No Danger of Overloading, Very Convenient Way to Connect Digital Multi-Meter or Ha

or ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=BK_7823306_0060902859
ATO Circuit Tester Fuse Adapter
Product Line: Balkamp Part Number:       BK 7823306

i have not had a chance to get one yet... but i noticed 2 new digital
volt meters at HF... the first one is designed for automotive use.. it does dwell and RPM...

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-1-2-half-inch-lcd-multimeter-with-tachometer-kit-95670.html

and this one...

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-digital-multimeter-98674.html

rooster · October 22, 2010, 10:25:00 PM

I'll go to NAPA tommoro and get one of those.

I tryed getting the banna plugs but they were out at that store.

I did remove the plug for the o2 sensor but it made no difference in voltage measured at B+ ing feed @ computer black 24 pin plug, today it measured 12.3vdc the entire time only going down a bit when engine dies, the test afew days ago I could only get 5.3dcv! The car runs real bad with o2 sensor disconnected, but at times it smothes out if I feather pedal. code sets again PO431 cam sensor.

Going after the relays now, I think I got right info on how to do it. Gotta figure out which relay does what!

rooster · October 23, 2010, 08:02:44 PM

NAPA didn't have the fuse buddy, closest one 40 miles, thats to far!

I did hookup the meter to the B+ ign feed again, this time the meter read ,040 when it
stopped, I left the key in the ON position and started removing plugs under the hood
hoping that I could find the bad location, nothing changed!!!!!

I turned the key off and then back on and the 12dc was there.

I tryed doing this test again later after testing each relay and pulling the steering colum
down to get to the ign stw (large pink wire), there I connected another meter to moniter
voltage .(pict)

I couldent get the dam thing to drop the voltage again, it seems like I get one shot at doing
this and thats from a cold eng. I'll try this again tommoro

other stuff:
Cooling fan1 did not start (thats new)

po321 is back, ign dist,eng speed, input circut, (still havent found this circut,pulse
circut?)

Their is a alarm system wired under the dash a some of the wires at tapped into the stw
harrness, HuMMM!!!!! We have never used it, dont even have a controller!

enjenjo · October 23, 2010, 08:32:29 PM

QuoteTheir is a alarm system wired under the dash a some of the wires at tapped into the stw
harrness, HuMMM!!!!! We have never used it, dont even have a controller!

Remove it, that may be your problem.

wayne petty · October 23, 2010, 09:15:12 PM

new ignition switch

just under 50 at napa...

if you notice in the image.. the blue button...

http://partimages.genpt.com/largeimages/490319.jpg

that is to center the switch during installation.. be sure to remove it.. once you have it tightened...

i am 99% sure that you install it with the key out...

i want to know if you have disconnected the ignition switch connector..

hooked to the pink wire... hooked to the other wire that shows continuity when the key is on.. turned to the continuity beeper and worked the ignition switch through its motions while listening to the beeping meter...

and the laugh for the weekend..

back in the late 80s i was chasing down rat chewed wires on a camaro.. i was using my beep test setting on my meter to trace shorts...

i was down to the last short to ground.. by closing time i had both ends of the harness completely disconnected and the meter was still beeping.. i was tired.. so i yanked the wires out the front of the meter so i did not have to reconnect them to the car in the morning..

there i am.. standing there with a meter thats beeping.. with nothing hooked to it.. oops... defective meter.. and that was not a cheep meter.. it was a beckman..

rooster · October 23, 2010, 10:18:46 PM

Quote from: "wayne petty"

i want to know if you have disconnected the ignition switch connector..

hooked to the pink wire... hooked to the other wire that shows continuity when the key is on.. turned to the continuity beeper and worked the ignition switch through its motions while listening to the beeping meter..

I have not disconnected any wires, I did remover a plastic cover that goes over the wires seen. 9 wires

key off: key on:
top row
Pink 0vdc 11.28
brown .34 11.36
tan/white 0. .30

2ed row:

red 11.83 11.43
red/white 11.83 11.45
green 0 11.26

3rd row:

yellow 0 0
green 0 11.43
orange 0 11.43

No plans yet to replace stw! If I get bad reading here I guess next N safty stw, then fuseablelink.

Best I take that alarm out to, dont know whats all involved yet.