95 olds just dies

[wayne petty]

did we talk about voltage drop tests....


positive battery post to the probably the effected circuit... with a load on the circuit...

if there is resistance between the 2 points.. there will be a volt reading in DC above  0.04 volts..

why is the battery voltage so low...

thats below 10% charge...   probably closer to -10%

can you test at the battery also... see if your battery voltage is at 11.38 or so...  

12.65 is a full charge...
12.45 is a half charge.
12.25 is a quarter charge...


i am going to PM you my phone number...

[wayne petty]

voltage drop testing...

set digital volt meter to 20 volt scale...

start engine...  turn on headlights..

1.  measure battery voltage... post to post...  14.1 to 14.6 volts is expected for a fully charged battery and the alternator working...

2.  test negative battery post to the engine block.. 0.04 volts is expected

3.  test negative battery post to the body....  0.02 volts is expected..

4.  test engine block to the body...................0.02 volts is expected..

5... under the dash.. red ,,,, and red and white wires to the body...  are you getting close to the charging system voltage.. 14.1..

6... on your car...    positive battery post with a LONG test lead...  to the red wire on the ignition switch...  post what you get...  0.04 is probably what you are going to get if all is well..

7... same long wire... to the red and white wire....   post what you get..  0.04 is what you should get...

8... same long wire to the pink wire at the ignition switch.. post what you get... 0.02 volts is what you should get on this small wire...

9...    pink wire in glove box..  to the pink wire at the ignition switch... post what you get...

remember...  volt meters measure voltage between the points where you probe at... the voltage drop tests can only be properly done with the engine running . the headlights on..   a load on the circuit you are testing..   or it will display 0.00....


if that aftermarket alarm has CUT and spliced into one of the wires...
remove the offending splices and reconnect the wire as it was from the factory..

[rooster]

voltage drop testing...

set digital volt meter to 20 volt scale...

start engine...  turn on headlights..

1.  measure battery voltage... post to post...  14.1 to 14.6 volts is expected for a fully charged battery and the alternator working...

2.  test negative battery post to the engine block.. 0.04 volts is expected

3.  test negative battery post to the body....  0.02 volts is expected..

4.  test engine block to the body...................0.02 volts is expected..

5... under the dash.. red ,,,, and red and white wires to the body...  are you getting close to the charging system voltage.. 14.1..

6... on your car...    positive battery post with a LONG test lead...  to the red wire on the ignition switch...  post what you get...  0.04 is probably what you are going to get if all is well..

7... same long wire... to the red and white wire....   post what you get..  0.04 is what you should get...

8... same long wire to the pink wire at the ignition switch.. post what you get... 0.02 volts is what you should get on this small wire...

9...    pink wire in glove box..  to the pink wire at the ignition switch... post what you get...

remember...  volt meters measure voltage between the points where you probe at... the voltage drop tests can only be properly done with the engine running . the headlights on..   a load on the circuit you are testing..   or it will display 0.00....


if that aftermarket alarm has CUT and spliced into one of the wires...
remove the offending splices and reconnect the wire as it was from the factory..

After charging the battery at 2 amps for 15 hours the batter reads 13.10

voltage drop test results:
( engine running and headlights on)

! post to post                  14.80 vdc
2 - to block                        .03 vdc
3 - bat to body                   .04 ( but varies alot higher values)
4 - block to body               .05  ( varies higher)
5 under dash red to body 14.6 , red/white 14.6
6 + bat ot red on ign stw .11
7 + bat to red/white ign stw .09
8 +bat to pink ign stw .16  (large wire though, no small there)
9 pink ign to pink glove box .03

I took alarm out no problem, no wires were cut in half. Car ran great ideling in driveway
for a few hours. then the light came on po341.

If I let the car run like that , and get the fan cycling, turn eng off, clear the code, restart
eng while still hot, it will run for hours no problems no dtc lights.

I let the eng cool totally and tested again tonight and at 180 degrees the light on the dash
comes on. I wonder what would happen if I started the engine tommoro morning with the
sensor disconnected until temp is above that, say 200 degrees!

Went to parts store and ordered a ign stw, can pick it up tommoro.

[wayne petty]

clean and restore the ground wires between the battery and the body...

and between the engine and the body...


the other readings a within  normal ranges...

but the variable...   between the battery negative and the body...

and the engine and the body.. really worries me...

test another known working good car with the engine running and the headlights on...

[rooster]

clean and restore the ground wires between the battery and the body...

and between the engine and the body...


the other readings a within  normal ranges...

but the variable...   between the battery negative and the body...

and the engine and the body.. really worries me...

test another known working good car with the engine running and the headlights on...

I can redo them again batt to body, there are no cables or wire that I have found that gos to the eng to body, been looking for that for awhile! I see no reason why I can't add on though.

Got the ign stw in today , no difference! The SES light comes on like clock work at 180-185 degrees water temp.
I read the post of Slocrow where his o2 sensor or circut is acting up,. I wonder if thats what going on here!!!!  That particular code is not avalable as a DTC in my obd 1,1/2.

[wayne petty]

clean and restore the ground wires between the battery and the body...

and between the engine and the body...


the other readings a within  normal ranges...

but the variable...   between the battery negative and the body...

and the engine and the body.. really worries me...

test another known working good car with the engine running and the headlights on...

I can redo them again batt to body, there are no cables or wire that I have found that gos to the eng to body, been looking for that for awhile! I see no reason why I can't add on though.

Got the ign stw in today , no difference! The SES light comes on like clock work at 180-185 degrees water temp.
I read the post of Slocrow where his o2 sensor or circut is acting up,. I wonder if thats what going on here!!!!  That particular code is not avalable as a DTC in my obd 1,1/2.

gm computers do not measure the  amp draw of the oxygen sensor heater...

At 185 coolant temp... since that would be about 600 or 700 F o2 temp since its in the exhaust .. the o2 sensor heater could be shorting. draging the circuit voltage down....


i really don't like the fluctuating voltage drop readings....   take a set of jumper cables...   hook red and black of one end to the engine.. and black to the negative battery post and red to the body...   NOTHING TO POSITIVE>>   this will create a separate ground circuit between the engine and body and battery to see if thats whats causing the problem......

the voltage drop as the code sets is why i wanted you to measure the amp draw on that circuit...  but if the body ground is bad... intermittent..  it will show less voltage on any tests..  

this might be a make it your self ground wire day...  until you can get a steady reading on the ground side...


remember...  electrons flow from the negative to the positive...    without a good ground...  the power to operate circuits will not have enough electrons if there is resistance in the ground paths ...

i am away from the house ... up in fresno for another day or two.. shooting seismic wires for a friend..  drilling them into the steel panels of the floor above to support some of the 500+ speakers he is going to install.   but i will check in in the evenings..

[rooster]

Wanye I got one of these

http://www.tooltopia.com/electronic-specialties-303b.aspx?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=ESI303B&utm_campaign=googlebase_18u

through Napa. It does the same thing as you describe with being able to connect a fuse circuit to a multimeter. I have one for ATC fuses and another for ATM fuses.

FatCat
I got a call from Wayne last night,he found meters with the readout at HF for only 13 bucks, with coupon it was 11.50 plus you get a led flashligh, couldent pass it up for that price.

[wayne petty]

                       

i wonder if you might take a careful look at the digital EGR valve...

perhaps...  some carefully applied silicone to the EGR valve wiring..    where the insulation had broken away....

[rooster]

                       

i wonder if you might take a careful look at the digital EGR valve...

perhaps...  some carefully applied silicone to the EGR valve wiring..    where the insulation had broken away....

Thanks for the headsup on the testers

That picture with the 6.8 amp draw is the fuel pump ckt with the eng running.

Also did the test on the inline fuse under the dash @ connecter Z ckt 639 (pink) the amp draw there was 1.0 to 1.2, I also caught this reading as eng stumbled and died 1.0

I'll do more tommoro.

other stuff:
Battery back down to 12.2 , key off!

those batterys in the tester are 12v 23amp, wonder what thats going to cost to replace!

Thanks again!!!!!!!!11

[wayne petty]

time to monitor the voltage again...

or cut a fuse in half....       solder a wire to it...    put an inline fuse...

run a long lead direct from the battery... to power that circuit...

looks like it might be easy to also look at voltage on that circuit with a trimmed fuse ..   where you have nibbled away at the plastic so you can get a clip on it.. and this fuse is plugged into the side of the amp meter....




i have had one other similar problem..    where the fuse holder terminals were not exerting enough force on the fuse or relay... and the current draw would drop the voltage...


at least i can sit and type...  the building is huge... and i was pounding my head...  the plans legend was wrong...  the scale was really 1/8 to the foot.. not 3/16 to the foot....  so the on the print 40 foot room that was actually 60 foot long was wrong..  no wonder all the speaker drops looked wrong...    so tomorrow.. back to the grind...    then i mentioned about the 3rd floor..  and the 36 inch steel beams over where we are going to install speakers..  there is about 10 inches of space in some areas... i just found out the backs are 16 to 18 inches tall....  so everything i did in those areas need to be redone...   i can hardly walk by the end of the day...  its like running a marathon...    only used 6 boxes of speaker wire today..  

520 speakers to go..   oh.. and the plasterboard guys finished in front of us... so we have to knock holes to pull wires...

[rooster]

I did some testing today:
I keep getting drawn into this heat related thing where I watch the temp guage and
180-185 the eng stalls and lights the dash SES
All test were done with a cold temp eng!

first test:
everything hooked
eng running good
temp get to 180 eng stumbles and dies, drops the cam sensor code

clear code
second test:
disconnect wiring harness plug to Digtal EGR
upon startup dash lights, computer sets p1650 code (autoxray)
eng still running good .
eng continues the run well passing 180 degrees and up to 220 degrees
fan does not come on
computer did not set cam sensor code at 180 degrees
stop test

clear code
third test:
connect wiring harness to Digital EGR
No codes set after startup, eng running good
temp rises to 180 eng stalls again and dies , computer set cam code again.

clear code
forth test:
disconnect wirning harness to Digital EGR
P1650 code sets on startup, eng running good, passes 180 degrees, at 220 degrees I
pluged the EGR plug in with eng running, fan starts,eng runs good , 1hour no problems!

I removed the EGR today, I bench tested it with 12v and all coils operated but 2 of the
ports didnot close all the way. I then place a screw drive into them and 1 didnt move, I
didnt force it.

open to sugestions on how to get this carbon out of the interior of the valve. Soak in carb
cleaner OK?

[wayne petty]

i have not had the pleasure of working with one of those..

sure sounds like its bad... possibly shorted inside...

something is stealing the power...

i have always used brake cleaner to clean EGR valves...

B12 chemtool spray.. was always a good choice also.. but it got really expensive...

i don't use carb dip at all ... to many nasty side effects... and then washing stuff off...    the dip is a nasty material...   causes birth defects... headaches.   dizzy spells...

at least i got home.. but i cannot find my new circuit tester..   must have gotten left at motel 6...      well.. maybe they can use it to diagnose those lights they leave on..   must be a reason for it...

the second floor is all wired...  used another 4 boxes of wire...  i don't think i am going to go back.. it was just to tough... and i am far to out of shape...

[Crosley.In.AZ]

some times you can not clean out the exhaust debris

[rooster]

some times you can not clean out the exhaust debris

This one comes apart. Cleaned it up yesterday, Ill try it with the gasket I have, If that dont work order a new one. Alot of the carbon was hard to get off the shaft that moves up and down when juice is applyed. When I first looked at this I thought the port were restricted, there not! There 3 different sizes! Have afew test to do and see if coils are robbing current .

I Ohmed the coils and got 22.6, 22.2, 12.4, I think that parts ok.

[wayne petty]

do you think that it's strange that one of the 3 identical coils has measures half the resistance of the others...

go a hair drier near by where you could heat the coils up to about 200 F... while you are measuring them, actually the one that is giving you the low reading...

similar problems with fuel injector windings...   they read lower than spec...  and when they get hot, they pull even more current...   more than the circuit can supply... more load than the computer can handle...


if the pintles were stuck open...  that egr valve would get really really hot do to the constant exhaust flow...  i bet the engine will idle better..


you also might want to verify that the passages in the engine are open... intake and exhaust..