Toyota stops sales of 8 models of cars

[wayne petty]

it is spreading out to fords also it seems...

http://forums.musclemustangfastfords.com/70/6662776/2005-2007-mustangs/accelerator-sticking/index.html


the scion toyotas are effected also...

http://forums.automotive.com/70/1067732/scion/unintended-acceleration-problems-with-scion/index.html

[unklian]

My thought, which is worth exactly the cost, pretty much agrees with Carnut. I will add one word. UAW.

What does the UAW have to do with it ?

Unions don't design and test components.

And these days, for all large auto manufacturers,
most component and sub-assembly production
is farmed out to non-union shops.

If the people assembling these gas pedals were unionized, or not,
as long as the assembly meets the specifications they were given,
they have done their jobs. Not their fault that the design is marginal.

[Okiedokie]

Sorry, I should have kept my thoughts to myself. I do agree with Carnut that something seems out of kilter about this deal. I have no knowledge of any UAW connection. Joe

[tomslik]

it is spreading out to fords also it seems...

http://forums.musclemustangfastfords.com/70/6662776/2005-2007-mustangs/accelerator-sticking/index.html


the scion toyotas are effected also...

http://forums.automotive.com/70/1067732/scion/unintended-acceleration-problems-with-scion/index.html

my wife's '06 XA has a cable.fwiw

[Carnut]

There's gonna be a whole lotta bandwagon jumping on this deal, just like there was with the audi scare.

Back then it was found the main thing in common with most all the incidents was the driver demographic, even between various of makes at the time that were also to have found to have unintended acceleration complaints.

Guess we'll see how this all works out.

heh, heh, blatant advertisement.

I have several magazines for sale from the audi time period with many articles discussing that fiasco. mostly from the auto enthusiast point of view, if anyone is curious.

[Rrumbler]

I think, no - I know that electronics and computer controls can go haywire and cause many problems that may not seem related.  I do not trust the electronic throttle systems on cars and trucks today, but I have decided that I must learn how to get along with them.  My '02 Tundra has the electronic throttle, and it is always a little niggle in the back of my mind that it might go off the reservation one day for whatever reason.  In '89 I bought a Chevy Dually with all of the available bells and whistles.  About a year on, it started having little spooky things happen, like the automatic temperature control for the heater/AC would readjust itself without my input, or the wiper delay would stop working for a while; even the radio had touch controls and would act up from time to time.  One day, the engine stopped and refused to start back up, so I had it towed to a dealer, and the mechanic asked me what was going on.  When I told him of the things that had been happening, he said "Oh, it's the brake light switch".  He replaced it , and everything went back to normal.  He told me that with the cruise control, and anti-lock brakes being wired through the ECU, along with the TBI, the AC controls, and the wiper sensors, that the brake light switch had broken both at the mounting point on the pedal arm, and internally,  where there were three of four sets of contacts, and it caused a bunch of wrong signals to be generated in the ECU, and that was the cause of all of the "spooks".

It seems to me that I recall that Jeep had a problem with some of their computer controlled smog devices back in the nineties, too, one of them being sudden WOT events.  I believe it was traced to a throttle positioning solenoid that was getting an erroneous signal from the ECU.  Those cars had cable throttle, but that solenoid sort of overrode the return spring, or something of that nature on the TBI unit.

At any rate, I don't trust electronics very far, and it seems that more and more stuff is becoming totally electronic.  I believe the word for someone like me is "Luddite".

[Crosley.In.AZ]

I have been * and moanin about the drive by wire for some time now.

It just bothers me,  I've had no  problem ........... yet


When I command WOT with my foot ,  I do not want a computer program thinking :"  OH OH , apply brakes , cut power... OH OH , tire spinning,  apply left brakes, cut more power

[wayne petty]

just curious... stories are starting to circulate about steering problems..

on corollas..

some have complained about the car swerving all over the road.. with the steering wheel not moving..

i am wondering if they have steer by wire without any mechanical linkage connecting type of systems..

unless it is the what ever they replaced the spool valve with thats acting up..


i wonder how many cars are being built with the electric brake calipers that were shown several years ago..   they claimed it would be quicker on the assy line.. no brakes to bleed..  just plug it in..  and GO...   but what about stopping?

[unklian]

they claimed it would be quicker on the assy line.. no brakes to bleed..  just plug it in..  and GO...   but what about stopping?

Ease of assembly is a VERY high priority for large manufacturers.
Speeds the assembly process, and lowers the required skill level.

Getting product out the door is the name of the game.

[58 Yeoman]

some have complained about the car swerving all over the road.. with the steering wheel not moving..

That's funny.  My work leased me a new Toyota lift truck last year, and it has SAS, which is a stability feature.

As for lift truck manufacturers, Toyota decided to take the lead role. The result was creating the world's first System of Active StabilityTM(SAS).

Using technology originally developed for Toyota's automotive safety systems, SAS is able to electronically monitor and control lift truck operations, helping to reduce the risk of accidents. In short, when the SAS system detects instability, its advanced sensors simultaneously signal and engage the appropriate controller. The Active Control Rear Stabilizer or the Active Mast Function Controller adds stability and helps avoid accidents or injuries.

Active Control Rear Stabilizer System

Toyota's SAS uses patented technology to sense various factors that lead to potential lateral instability. When those conditions are detected, the SAS instantly locks a hydraulic cylinder on the rear steer axle, changing the lift truck's stability footprint from triangular in shape to rectangular. The resulting increase in stability reduces the likelihood of a lateral overturn.

http://www.toyotaforklift.com/about_us/product_focus/safety.aspx#

If you go to this website and watch the video, it's very impressive at keeping the lift truck upright.  BUT, when I'm driving it outside on uneven streets, or just get off the edge of the road, then I can feel it swerving on its' own, and I'm holding the wheel steady.  It's ever so slight, but I'm only going a few miles an hour.

I asked the mechanic who came up to fix the alternator about it, and he didn't know if the steering was drive by wire or not (maybe not his area of expertise?).

[Carnut]

Lady testified in congress today that her Lexus sped up to 100mph totally out of her control. She said she did everything to stop it, put on the hand brake and shifted transmission to different positions with no effect.

Huh? Are the Handbrake and the Transmission also fly-by-wire as well as the ignition key?

She then says the car slowed down on it's own.

Sorry I'm still a skeptic.

[Okiedokie]

I'm still skeptical myself.

[zzebby]

Yes I  too am skeptic of that lady in front of congress.  She said that it went on for 6 minutes???   I find it hard to believe that the shifter is "shift by wire".  Do we have any Lexus or Toyota guys here  Carps, where are you .........or is it suicide for you to say word one???  Maybe one of your mates can tells us what "rumours"  he has heard?
If the 2006 Lexus (she didn't say which model) shifter has a mech link then her story is bogus.
Also I recall hearing that the throttle problem was worsened by corrosion.   Anyone recall where her problem occured?  Rust belt or no?

Aircraft have been fly by wire for well over 20 yrs.  No crashes there,  but there is a different quality standard , plus multiple redundant systems.

[wayne petty]

thats a really good question...  perhaps tony might know...

as i think that it would be true.. that when the shift lever is moved  into the neutral position .. that the pressure feeds in the transmission valve body are dumped?

perhaps this is not the case... since the ecm controls the shift solenoids.. perhaps the manual lever moved into neutral does not drop the pressure fast enough..   or the ECM is keeping the solenoids powered up..

i wonder what the black boxes are saying..

Hal... Let me in please....   Hal !!!!  i promise not do disconnect you...


and then there is this...

http://ksax.com/article/stories/s1411539.shtml

[Carnut]

Wonder if Cable News and Congress will be able to kill off Toyota USA.