Toyota stops sales of 8 models of cars

[purplepickup]

update...

i ran across this post on another site...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/toyota-gas-pedal-fix-explained-with-exclusive-photos/

its an important read.. and i think there is a second part linked at the end...

Thanks Wayne.  I probably wouldn't have gotten that deep into their problem until it became my problem.  My '09 Vibe is involved 'cuz its a rebadged Toyota.  Right now it's in storage for the winter so I hope they come up with a reliable fix by spring.  It's a pretty quick car and WOT might be a trip

[enjenjo]

Interesting read. I followed the links, read all the comments. Seems even engineers can't agree on if the fix will work or not.

[unklian]

How much is the price difference between the Denso and CTS designs ?

A couple pennies up front,

OR  many Millions$$$ and a few deaths.

Nobody ever told them "Simple is good" ?

[purplepickup]

Nobody ever told them "Simple is good" ?

Sure seems like a cable would be cheaper than electronic.

[tomslik]

Nobody ever told them "Simple is good" ?

Sure seems like a cable would be cheaper than electronic.

oh, with traction control and cruise being easier to control w/computer and  all contained in the throttle control valve and 'puter....
btw, germans have their share of "issues" with the fly-by-wire stuff...
vw and saturn (opel) come to mind....
they just are not getting stuck WFO....

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Nobody ever told them "Simple is good" ?

Sure seems like a cable would be cheaper than electronic.

oh, with traction control and cruise being easier to control w/computer and  all contained in the throttle control valve and 'puter....
btw, germans have their share of "issues" with the fly-by-wire stuff...
vw and saturn (opel) come to mind....
they just are not getting stuck WFO....

no  problems with my v-dub  in 96k miles  so far on the throttle.  Although the computer at times acts slow on take off from a stop.  You certainly do not get in a hurry to jump into traffic with this DSG  transmittin and electronic clutch setup.

V-dub  also lists various traction assistance  programs  in the owners manual that use the ABS to control traction and reduce engine power in low traction situations.  They even list a electronic locking differential that is actaully the ABS use , not a locking diff.

I doubt I will own another V-dub ,  totyota looks iffy too.  I owned a toyota x-tra  cab little truck many years ago...  bought a salvage recovery thieft   truck,  4 cyl  automatic transmittin

[Bruce Dorsi]

The cut-&-paste below are not my words, but have been copied from a post made elsewhere.  

However, it does raise some relevant questions.




"As with every situation, there is more at play than just the pedal.

The pedal (and it's varying designs) are one part of the engine management/ignition/drive/braking systems. The information and data they send to the "fly by wire" system, must be analysed by an electronic contol unit (ECU)BEFORE it sends the information to the fuel injectors and so on.

In most makes of automatic gearboxed cars, WHEN the foot brake is applied the engine management brain, sends a signal that overrides any information it gets from the gas pedal, thus stopping the engine from "racing". I understand Toyota is now considering adding this feature to their software.

SO while the gas pedal, may seem to be the culprit, it actually may be the symptom of a poorly designed "system" without enough safety overrides, the same overrides used by Toyota's competitors.

The other piece of this which really puzzles me is, in all cars, the brakes are designed to be more than capable of overcoming the engine. In fact Car and Driver magazine has completed a test, using a Camry which shows exactly that. So that suggests to me, that the brake function has either been hindered OR rendered completely non functioning. But seeing as this is a hydraulic system, unless it is also Fly by wire then it should work, even if the ABS portion became inoperable. IF it were a fly by wire design (which is rare for braking systems. Mercedes gets hammered for their attempts at it) then would it be possible to assume the the Electronic control module and software have lost their minds? I welcome comments and knowledge on this thought."

[wayne petty]

bruce... i think the last paragraph where the brakes have enough power to stop the car if the engine runs away might be only partly true...

most people are going to try to pump the brakes....    with the engine making max power..  at wide open throttle .. there's not going to be much power brake booster vacuum left after the first pump...


which may be why toyota says to press the brake only one time and hold it down... ....

reporters keep forgetting the most important thing is to tell the public to shift to neutral...

[GPster]

If I was going to count on the brakes to over-ride the engine I'd use the brake switch to cancel the throttle like they do for cruise control. GPster

[tomslik]

Nobody ever told them "Simple is good" ?

Sure seems like a cable would be cheaper than electronic.

oh, with traction control and cruise being easier to control w/computer and  all contained in the throttle control valve and 'puter....
btw, germans have their share of "issues" with the fly-by-wire stuff...
vw and saturn (opel) come to mind....
they just are not getting stuck WFO....

no  problems with my v-dub  in 96k miles  so far on the throttle.  Although the computer at times acts slow on take off from a stop.  You certainly do not get in a hurry to jump into traffic with this DSG  transmittin and electronic clutch setup.

V-dub  also lists various traction assistance  programs  in the owners manual that use the ABS to control traction and reduce engine power in low traction situations.  They even list a electronic locking differential that is actaully the ABS use , not a locking diff.

I doubt I will own another V-dub ,  totyota looks iffy too.  I owned a toyota x-tra  cab little truck many years ago...  bought a salvage recovery thieft   truck,  4 cyl  automatic transmittin

diesels don't count, cros, nobody can tell if they're idling or wide-*-open.


i bet carps has his hands full....
i'd still buy toyota (car, not truck)

[Carnut]

I'm still totally skeptical that there is any 'real' problem with the toyota cars.

I just see mass hysteria increasing and spreading though the whole brand range.

Again, the lawyers are licking their chops, the whitehouse is probably glad that a 'foreign' company is having problems in competing with our now government owned auto companies.

Just like the Audi scare in the 80's everyone jumping on a bandwagon that really isn't there.

I feel sorry for toyota and it's vendors engineers trying to solve something that ain't there.

My first thoughts were just like Audi scare, why are so many folks pressing their throttles full to the floor to get them stuck? Never realized so many folks were flooring it in daily operations, especially in their own garages where many Audi's drove through the rear walls

Fraid I'm on the Darwin awards side of this equation, if someone can't turn the key off or shift into neutral or stand on the brakes while speeding down a freeway on the phone with 911, they kinda deserve the results.

I really think the california freeway accident was a gimmick gone bad.

Heh, heh, I won't comment on what I think of Prius Drivers.

[wayne petty]

tony...   VW's do have drive by wire throttle problems...

when batteries go dead or get changed out...   without using a memory saver battery plugged into the lighter socket..

there is a procedure to reset the throttle  with a VAG scan tool...

slow to take off is one of the problems when they get out of whack...

do you need instructions   i think i posted the link before...

it will take me a while to find the link again..

[Crosley.In.AZ]

tony...   VW's do have drive by wire throttle problems...

.

wayne,

my reference is to a slow throttle on the vee-dub is  from day one of ownership.

vw tells me it is a trait of the DSG trans auto-apply control of  the clutch

If you stab the pedal hard , the vw  responds sorta slow. If  I  Roll on the throttle hard  from a stop and the tires will spin till the traction  control system stops that.

it is a whacky sytem,yet operates well. ?

I can set the parking brake, place the trans in "D"  and let off the foot brake.  The computer will try to  gently move the car by applying the clutch  till it realizes the car will not move and it disengages the clutch and sits there waiting

[Carnut]

Here's a new article about some testing on toyota cars.

Toyota report: No fault found in electronic throttle controls

(CNN) -- A preliminary report from a consulting firm hired to analyze Toyota and Lexus vehicles linked to unintended acceleration failed to find any problem with the carmaker's electronic throttle controls, Toyota announced Saturday.

Toyota said it had retained Exponent, an independent engineering and scientific consulting firm, to conduct the analysis of its vehicles that use the suspect Electronic Throttle Control System with intelligence.

"The interim report, dated February 4, 2010, notes that Exponent was unable to induce unintended acceleration in any of the ETCS-i equipped Toyota and Lexus vehicles it tested," the company said in a posting on its Web site. "In all cases, the vehicle either behaved normally or entered a fail-safe mode where engine power was significantly reduced or shut off."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/13/toyota.recall.report/index.htm

I'm still of the opinion that the unintended acceleration is just mass hysteria just like several studies pointed to in the Audi cases in the 80's.

Also saw a discussion on Fox news today that all these Toyotas have black boxes on board that can be analyzed to show the last few minutes of control settings on the vehicles before the 'accidents'.  Should show if brakes are ever applied or just accelerator, which in the Audi cases was shown to have occurred in most all of it's cases, folks thinking they were hitting the brake when they actually were hitting the accelerator.

Will be interesting to see what happens when the black box info gets into the courts.

[Okiedokie]

My thought, which is worth exactly the cost, pretty much agrees with Carnut. I will add one word. UAW.