well were close .. almost 4 buck a gallon gas.

[Dave]

Well now thats interesting but I dont think its gonna happen but then your drunk and trying to save the economy along with lowering gas prices.. The way I see it is were just plain screwed.. The dollar is down and forget what the pollsters say un employment is way up (the government never could count anyway) and forget any cost of living increases for any of us non union  workers.. We will be paying out the * for gas from now on.. So the only answer I have is to watch what I spent on trivial B/S so I can go on vacation and races and have fun.. Oh ya maybe car show or 2 also.. Im at a time in my life that ive got 4 weeks a year vacation and a pretty good vacation check for that time and im not gonna sit home..  Unless someone cuts off foreign oil completely here you wont see any rationing cause the greedy sob's in the oil business want every dollar not just part of it but all of it.. One thing i agree with though to bring prices down is to quit stockpiling oil in the reserves.. we have like 5 times more oil stockpiled than we need but i figure that just makes George richer..  
So in a nut shell i dont agree with your answer to fix the situation but ill bet mine prolly wont fly either..
Dave

[Land Yacht]

We're running about 3.60 in colorado, wonder why the difference?

[Husker]

The Truth about Oil

By Vasko Kohlmayer
FrontPageMagazine.com | 5/8/2008

A recent survey on the environment found that seventy percent of people worldwide think that the planet is running out oil. Only less than one quarter believe that there is enough of it to keep it as a primary source of energy. Petro pessimism runs especially high in the United States where a full two thirds think that the point of depletion is within sight.

Here are some hard facts.

According the Energy Information Administration as of January 2007 there was more than 1.3 trillion barrels of proved crude oil on earth. Even if this were all the oil on the planet there would be no immediate danger of shortages, because at the current rate of consumption – roughly 85 million barrels a day – this supply would last for more than 40 years.

But the 1.3 trillion in these so-called proved reserves refers only to a tiny fraction of earth's oil, designating only that portion which can be extracted under current 'economic and operating conditions.' As it happens, this figure grows with each decade and usually dramatically so.

In 1882, for instance, there were 95 million barrels of proved petroleum reserves. This number jumped to 4.5 billion in 1926 and then to 10 billion in 1932. In 1944 the quantity stood at 20 billion. In 1950 it leaped to 100 billion and in 1980 it was 648 billion. In 1993 the world's proved reserves grew to 999 billion, and today they stand at 1.3 trillion barrels.

These figures show that our ever-increasing consumption has not over the years reduced the pool of available oil. In fact, the exact opposite is the case – each successive year we have more of it than ever before. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, mankind's oil supplies are not getting depleted, but they keep continually expanding.

There are several reasons for this. New exploration and advancements in surveying techniques in particular result in fresh finds almost every year.

We have seen a dramatic instance of this at the end of last year when a massive reservoir was discovered in the Tupi sector off the coast of Brazil. Estimated to hold some 8 billion barrels of recoverable crude it was the second largest find in the last 20 years. Two months later an even greater deposit was located nearby which may hold as much as 30 billion barrels. If confirmed, the field would be the third biggest on the planet, behind only the Ghawar in Saudi Arabia and the Burgan in Kuwait. Many scientists are now convinced that intense exploration fuelled by high prices will yield comparable discoveries in other places of the globe.

Adding appreciably to the proved reserves is the continual perfecting of drilling techniques. This makes it possible to tap deposits which because of their depth or geological environment were off limits only a few years ago. Today's equipment can perform mind-boggling feats of horizontal drilling and there are oil rigs capable of reaching 35,000 feet under the surface, about double of what the previous generation could do.

Rising prices also make available oil which was previously considered unrecoverable commercially, because for whatever reason the extraction cost per barrel exceeded the price it could fetch on the market. With every jump in price, however, more and more of such oil is brought up as its production becomes profitable.

Finally, improvements in extraction processes make it possible to more fully utilize currently harvested reservoirs. Due to technical and economic limitations, normally only a portion of an oilfield can be recovered (it is this part that is referred to as the 'proved' reserve). A few decades ago the average oil recovery rate from reservoirs was 20%, but thanks to technological progress this rate is nearing 40% today.

It is the combination of these factors that accounts for the fact that more and more is added every year to mankind's stock of crude oil. This in turn results in a seemingly paradoxical outcome. Even as our consumption increases with each passing year, the projected depletion point keeps moving further out into the future.

In 1986, for instance, it was estimated that the world's proved reserves would last 38 years. On that estimate we should only have 17 years worth of oil left. But because the figure in the 'proved reserves' column keeps getting larger, we now have more than 40 years.

This dynamic has been in place ever since gasoline began to be mass consumed. Due to the continuing exploration and technological advancement, we can be virtually assured that two or three decades from now we will be talking about another 40 or 50 or more years worth of crude. Cambridge Energy Research Associates, one of the world's premier energy advisors, predicts that earth's proved reserves could increase by as much as 25% by 2015.

But there is more to the story. So far we have only been considering crude oil, but crude is not the sole source of this strategic commodity. There are far greater amounts of it locked in other materials such as shale, coal and tar sands.

Proven technologies exist to obtain oil from these resources but they have not yet been widely exploited, because until quite recently the extraction costs – ranging from $40 to $90 per barrel – exceeded the market price. The currently high and rising prices, however, are quickly turning these methods into potentially profitable ventures.

With many companies positioning themselves to take advantage of the opportunity, we are witnessing the birth of a giant industry and one that might eventually eclipse that in crude oil. This is because the estimated global deposits of recoverable shale oil alone exceed three trillion barrels. This is more than twice the world's current crude oil reserves.

America is especially well endowed on this front as it has nearly 75% of the planet's known oil shale deposits. The Bureau of Land Management estimates that the Green River Formation of Colorado, Utah and Wyoming alone 'holds the equivalent of 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil.' This is three times the proved oil reserves of Saudi Arabia. At current consumption levels, that quantity would satisfy America's needs for 110 years.

Like shale, coal is another enormous repository of oil. Technology to liquidify it has been around since the 1920s. Germany was the first country to utilize it on a mass scale when during World War II it sought to compensate for a lack of crude. Today this technology is successfully exploited by South Africa whose three liqudification plants produce150,000 barrels a day, the equivalent of the output from a medium-sized oilfield.

The United States – with roughly 27 per cent of the world's recoverable coal – is especially well positioned to benefit from this resource. A couple of years ago, the New York Times pointed out that 'the coal in the ground in Illinois alone has more energy than all the oil in Saudi Arabia.' It is estimated that at a standard conversion rate of two barrels of synthetic fuels from one ton of coal, America's reserves are equivalent to 20 times the nation's proved crude. In other words, liquefied coal could satiate America's petrol thirst for two hundred years.

But even coal's potential is exceeded by that of tar sands which may hold as much as two thirds of the planet's petroleum. Tar sands occur in many parts of the world with large deposits in Canada, Venezuela, the United States, Russia and various countries of the Middle East. Canada alone is estimated to have some 1.7 trillion barrels of which about 10% is recoverable at today's prices and with existing technology. The country's tar sands alone make Canada second only to Saudi Arabia as an oil resource country.

Tar sands account for one million barrels (about 40%) of Canada's oil production with the number growing each year. America's largest oil supplier, Canada provides about 20% of our imports of which a substantial portion comes from this untraditional source. So vast is its potential that a CBS broadcast stated 'the reserves [of tar sands] are so vast in the province of Alberta that they will help solve America's energy needs for the next century.'

With estimated 30 billion barrels of recoverable petroleum from tar sands, America's own supplies are not negligible either. A concentrated effort to launch wide scale commercial mining was launched in the late 70s, but the subsequent drop in oil prices led to the project's abandonment. The $100 plus per barrel rate, however, is likely to change this situation in not-too-distant future.

All this should make one thing amply clear – there is enough oil to go around for a very long time. Even on conservative assumptions – accelerating consumption and few new discoveries – earth's oil supplies should last for at least a century.

This, however, is the worst case scenario. We can be reasonably certain that new exploration and advancing technologies will in coming years greatly add to the quantities of available oil. So much so that Morris Adelman, Professor Emeritus in Economics at Harvard, has argued that the 'amount of oil available to the market over the next 25 to 50 years is for all intents and purposes infinite.'

The notion that this planet is running out of oil is one of the great misnomers of our age. There is more oil available today than there was a hundred, fifty or ten years ago. And there is every indication that this trend will continue into the future. Instead of lamenting that we are running out of it, it would be far more accurate to say that we are constantly bumping into new oil. This is why two years ago the Economist headlined an article on the topic The Bottomless Beer Mug.

The general public, however, is largely ignorant of these facts. The divergence between the conventional wisdom and reality could hardly be any wider. Profoundly misinformed and alarmed, people place false hopes in misguided alternatives. Rather than implementing harmful, inefficient and expensive substitutes, we should insist that our government lift the obstacles which prevent us from availing ourselves of this superabundant resource.

[Husker]

Quote:
CNN) -- Gasoline prices set a record for the 16th consecutive day Wednesday. A gallon of gas cost an average of $3.62, according to AAA, and much more in some markets.


Shell Oil Co. President John Hofmeister says a boost in U.S. production would startle the world market.

All three presidential candidates have weighed in on the issue, and President Bush on Tuesday addressed it during a news conference.

John Hofmeister, president of Shell Oil Co., the U.S. division of Royal Dutch Shell, addressed rising gasoline prices during an interview Wednesday with John Roberts on CNN's "American Morning."

ROBERTS: What do you say to people who are in this budget crunch of trying to fill up the family car?

HOFMEISTER: I say we need more gas to be produced in this country. I've been saying that for three years, ever since I took this position [as president of Shell].

If the U.S. set a goal to produce 2 to 3 million barrels more a day in this country, we would send a shock around the world that would immediately say to the speculators, hey, U.S. is serious. President [Bush] said something yesterday about this. I didn't hear him, but I think that's good news. But we should set a specific target.

The presidential candidates should be out there on the postings saying let's increase domestic production by 2 to 3 million barrels a day. That would be something that would put money back into this country, jobs back into this country, and it would bring more supply toward the Americans who need it.

ROBERTS: The president is advocating more drilling on U.S. territory. Isn't it true that globally we're starting to reach a peak in production and that within maybe a decade or two oil production will begin to decrease?

HOFMEISTER: Well, I think there is some argument [that] with convenient, easy oil we will peak sometime in the next decade. I think Shell sees that coming, but in terms of total oil supply to the world, we're a long way from reaching peak oil because it doesn't take into account unconventional oil.

I think the president brings up a good point in that we could, we have the available domestic supplies off the coast of Alaska as well as [the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge]. Shell has won $2 billion worth of high bids for the Chukchi Sea -- that's a few years off before we could begin production.

But let's remember there's more than 100 billion barrels of untouched oil and gas in this country that is subject to a 30-year moratorium. Now, there's only one body in this country that can set a 30-year moratorium, and that's the U.S. government.

ROBERTS: Sen. Hillary Clinton wants to slap you with a 50 percent tax on what she calls windfall profit, profit above a certain level. Is that a good idea?

HOFMEISTER: Look at our revenues and our income for the last quarter. If we had made $7.8 million on $114 million of revenue, nobody would call that excessive, because that's 7½ percent. We made $7.8 billion profit on $114 billion revenue -- same 7½ percent. So to me that is not an excessive number when banks and pharmaceuticals and IT companies earn a whole lot more.

ROBERTS: Would it hurt you if she put in place this tax on the windfall profits?

HOFMEISTER: Sure it would. It would slow down investment. Taxing the oil companies was tried in the '80s. It drove us to do imports, which is exactly the problem we have today.

ROBERTS: Where is the top of all this? How high can the price of a barrel of oil go? How high will the cost of a gallon of gasoline go?

HOFMEISTER: I heard somebody say the other day it's as long as a piece of string. We don't know.

ROBERTS: The president of OPEC said $200 a barrel.

HOFMEISTER: Yeah, well, there are some countries out there subsidizing the cost of their energy to their consumers and industries to compete with America -- or against America -- because they think America won't solve the problem.

ROBERTS: You're saying you have no idea where the top is.

HOFMEISTER: We don't know. But we should produce more oil in this country

[Husker]

I believe we're rapidly reaching the point where many middle class Americans will in fact have to start changing their life styles. As gas exceeds 4 dollars a gallon it will force people to start making some very hard choices. Consider someone that must drive 500 miles a week just to get to work. 48 months ago gas prices we averaging around 2 dollars a gallon! So in about 4 years energy costs have roughly doubled for the average American driver. If you're driving 500 miles a week for work you used to spend approximately 50 dollars a week which will now be 100 a week! Lets use 48 weeks for work and this victim is now paying 4800 a year versus 2400 4 years ago. Now with 2 people working (pretty much most families now) the energy cost would increase about 5000 a year! That includes nothing for huge increases for home utilities, heat light, A/C etc! Now pile on the increased cost for almost everything else that's affected by increased energy costs and we're looking at a national disaster.

People are clearly going to run out money not just for discretionary spending but on the necessities of life. The ripple effect of this energy crises is yet to be fully felt IMO. We have a disproportionate amount of money all going towards one single commodity... ENERGY! Thanks to the environmental wacko's and gutless politicians we've simply FAILED to increase our energy supply. We stupidly squander precious resources generating electricity when we have almost limitless amounts of coal and nuclear. We can't burn enough coal because of draconian EPA regs and state and federal morons have stonewalled building more nuclear plants! So we continue to burn hundreds of millions of gallons of fuel oil and natural gas just to generate electricity! Those fuels could have been much better used to power our vehicles and heat our homes! It would have also lowered gas prices because a lot more would be available.

Unfortunately there are NO easy answers or quick fixes now. We've cleverly boxed ourselves in with the lack of developing our own natural resources. We have loons like Algore screaming about global warming while recent events suggest the *exact opposite may be happening. We've had the tail wagging the dog for the past 30 years on environmental issues which has greatly pushed us to exactly were we find ourselves. We are a society that has wanted it all and refused to compromise to help ourselves. We can drill for oil anywhere but here! We refuse to exploit our portion of the gulf of Mexico! Alaska is out of bounds according to the loony democrats! Our only answer has to become ever more dependent on foreign oil. We learned absolutely nothing from the oil lines and shortage of the 70's! Nothing at all........

The problem isn't demand it's supply! I'm convinced there are technological answers to all these problems but unfortunately we've been hog tied by the loons and our gutless politicians. The American people will start to understand better when we're all paying 4 to 6 dollars a gallon in the next 18 months. We've done NOTHING to help ourselves in all of this except more of the same. We've failed to build 1 new refinery in this country in the past 30 years! So our true refining capacity hasn't increased in over a quarter century!

Quote:
Over the last quarter-century, the number of refineries in the United States dropped to 149, less than half the number in 1981. Because companies have upgraded and expanded their aging operations, refining capacity during that time period shrank only 10 percent from its peak of 18.6 million barrels a day. At the same time, gasoline consumption has risen by 45 percent.

Why not you ask? Well once again the environmental wacko's, out of control EPA regs and gutless politicians. The whack nuts say you can build a present refinery anywhere but here! Why would the majors even consider the costly litigation required to even attempt to build a new refinery? It's almost impossible to get it done in our country now. BTW the last one built was in Placentia Bay, in southern Newfoundland!

Until the USA wakes up to our energy plight nothing will change! Perhaps 6 buck a gallon gas, 5 dollar a gal heating oil and soaring natural gas prices will actually produce some commonsense solutions. Solar, wind, hydrogen fuel cells and other renewable energy sources are wonderful alternatives! Unfortunately they are 20 years away from shifting the burden away from fossil fuel. We can continue to listen to the pie in the sky environmental wacko's or the country can get off it's collective butts and actually do something! Sadly until the American people DEMAND change in our present insane energy policies nothing is going to change........


Quote:
Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.

No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to wipe out most of the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year's time. For all four sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.

Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.

Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.

Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.

[Bugpac]

I'm retired but my wife has a 120 mi. round work trip. It's been a way of life for us for a long time. Allowed us to have city jobs and the country lifestyle we love.Because I don't believe there is a limit to how high prices will be allowed to go we were going to put the house on the market and move intown. Falling house prices have put a temp hold on that. With about 70% equity we can sell but i need to get used to the hit I'm going to take. I don't thing anyone really knows who's responsible for this but they are the most powerful people in the world and are hellbent on doing something, I'm just not sure what.

You could buy a lot of gas for the 30% hit your going to take...

[58 Yeoman]

Well, here I am in Worth, IL., just a little south of chicago, and it's $4.04/ gallon.

[chopped]

You could buy a lot of gas for the 30% hit your going to take...

That's part of why I'm holding off. But what happens when cost creates a cash flow problem? It's one thing for America to change a lifestyle, what's going to happen when we just can't afford the gas to get the working class to work?

[Dave]

Well gas is in the 3.80's here in indiana.. Im a long ways from needing any for the Grand Prix yet   This thing gets great mileage .. Maybe I should check it.. Ill watch prices again today. Im in anderson and heading to indy today. This was a far as i wanted to drive last night .. I have seen 4.09 a gallon for regular also..
Dave  

[Bugpac]

You could buy a lot of gas for the 30% hit your going to take...

That's part of why I'm holding off. But what happens when cost creates a cash flow problem? It's one thing for America to change a lifestyle, what's going to happen when we just can't afford the gas to get the working class to work?

I agree fully, with that comment about the 30% hit, you also have to have the cashflow to buy the gas...It sucks either way for all....Im thinking about buying a moped...

[wvcab]

You could buy a lot of gas for the 30% hit your going to take...

That's part of why I'm holding off. But what happens when cost creates a cash flow problem? It's one thing for America to change a lifestyle, what's going to happen when we just can't afford the gas to get the working class to work?

umm... maybe a "working flat" in the city  ie... a cheap apt/room, till things, level out?

[Dave]

Well I had to fill the G/P yesterday before I left from near Salem Indiana. I ran it pretty low but the fuel light never came on and it was 54.00 at 3.89.9 a gallon and i saw it as low as 3.83.9 in indy but i questioned the car being there with the wheels on it after i payed for the fuel   I still havent checked the mileage but its * good... We will see if they jack it it up more before the weekend..
Dave  

[bucketmouth]

Well we're facing another price hike tomorrow and at $160/litre that makes it around $6.40/gallon.
I remember the experts saying we had a fuel crisis in the 70s and we were running out of fuel then. I wonder where those so called experts are now.
I personaly think it's one big con.

Like it  was said earlier the price of food has gone up to. Well down here we have two major supermarkets who have 80% of the market. But to be fair to them they do have good ads on t.v.
Apparently the average shopping basket has gone up $100 in the last year but their heart warming  people friendy ads make me fell a whole lot better not!I could go on forever but I wont. :evil:

[38HAULR]

Hi Bucketmouth.   I remember the early 70,s ads also on the running out crisis.    Also for our US readers ,we run imperial gallons here, 4.55 litres making a gallon. I do not know if a similar scam applies in the US.  Here in OZ we have major supermarket ,COLES  ,SAFEWAY chains buying/ running fuel stations, they then run a shopper docket scheme,present your cash register  tape from one of their supermarkets,and you get 4c per litre discount on the fuel. Only prob is ,they load up the price of fuel in the first place ,and if you shop carefully you can save a bundle on your grocery bills. example 4cpl off a 60litre fill saves you a whopping $2.40. Well by shopping at ALDI, IGA etc,and visiting the chains for specials only,you can save anything like $20- $30 on a trolley load of goods,thus making the "fuel saving " something for the gullible........Frank.

[Charlie Chops 1940]

Saw $4.18 to 4.28 tonight....