Energy Suspension polyurethane engine mounts

[WZ JUNK]

A friend of mine recently installed Energy Suspension polyurethane motor mounts in his 39 Olds.  After 1 trip of 400 miles, this is what was dripping out of the mount.  Neither the vendor or Energy Suspension will stand by their product.  The car has block hugger headers but they are a reasonable distance from the mounts.  I thought this might be a heads up if you are thinking about using these mounts.

[rumrumm]

Hmmm. I don't like the sounds of that. I've got them, too, but I haven't driven the car yet. About ready to though. Thanks for the heads up.

[Charlie Chops 1940]

I thought that stuff was supposed to be more or less inert once it's molded. Do they think we have a way to change it back to raw material? What's their story on why it isn't their fault?

Charlie

[HOTRODSRJ]

A friend of mine recently installed Energy Suspension polyurethane motor mounts in his 39 Olds.  After 1 trip of 400 miles, this is what was dripping out of the mount.  Neither the vendor or Energy Suspension will stand by their product.  The car has block hugger headers but they are a reasonable distance from the mounts.  I thought this might be a heads up if you are thinking about using these mounts.

I have used this stuff for years with NO problems on all kinds of applications and I would say that either the material was tainted or not up to snuff......or could the exhausts have gotten so hot due to a lean condition that it literally melted the material.

One note tho......it's stronger and takes more heat than rubber/silicone...so if it were rubber it would have been tango uniform too!  Just cooked and flakey tho....no gooey strands.

[enjenjo]

I have experienced this in the past, on truck cab mounts. the urethane looks like you hit it with a torch, melted and dripping out. The cause was vibration. Urethan has most of the attributes of rubber, but it will melt when heated. Severe vibration, heats them up so much the urethane just spontaneously melts. We stopped using the urethane mounts for that reason.

Now, what is causing the vibration on his car is another subject, but it can cause this problem.

[C9]

I've seen a number of the Energy Suspension (ES) motor mounts used with success.

I wonder if UHMW in place of the ES mounts would work?

Here's a couple pics of UHMW mounts I made.
First set was for my 31 roadster.
Designed after the 48 Ford style mounts.

The engine mount is the same design that's worked well in my 32 roadster for - up to that point - 35,000 miles.

One problem with the rubber biscuits on the 48 Ford style mounts is that it's difficult to find them molded from a strong and stiff rubber.
Most sets I've seen have been too soft.
(The weight of the Buick engine shouldn't be a problem because once you remove the heavy stock cast iron intake manifold and install an aluminum one it weighs approx 15# more than a SBC.)

You can find a stamped top cap that will spread the load over the rubber biscuit, but it's not long until the strongest rubber is mashed down under load.

Since the UHMW is hard stuff, but still, softer than steel I worried about vibration from the engine mounts in the 31.
So I made a set of them for the 32 and am happy to report there are no problems with vibration and in fact they seem to be smoother than the rubber biscuits.

They're easy to make, get a piece of UHMW, drill a pilot hole, cut em out with a hole saw and drill the center for the bolt that will be used.

If you have an odd shape - square, rectangular etc. - cutting them with a bandsaw works fine.

UHMW stands for Ultra High Molecular Weight.
It's used in industry for a sliding bearing.
Similar to Teflon, 70% stronger than Teflon, but not near as slippery.
Price is 10-25% the cost of Teflon where I bought it.
(Try to buy the stuff out of the remnants - or cutoffs - barrel.  Much cheaper that way.)

Available at plastics houses, farm supply houses and rubber houses.
(Rubber houses being where sheets of rubber are sold.)

It's available in several thicknesses as well.
1/4-3/8-1/2-3/4-1" etc.
Nice part about that is you can fine tune engine height.

The aluminum plates you see are to keep the UHMW puck in place on the bottom and spread the load on the top.
Although the top one is probably more decorative than useful.
(I left the engine/trans combo sitting on the bare UHMW for seven months and when I installed the load spreader plate, the UHMW was unmarked from the weight the engine mount was impressing on it.

[Uncle Bob]

Jay, just to expand a bit on your commentary, UHMW is a somewhat incomplete description.  The product is a polyethylene, and since that nomenclature is very similar sounding to polyurethane, sometimes folks confuse the two (although I'm sure you know the difference).

Rather than go into a long discertation I'll just include some links so those that are interested can dig deeper.

Re: polyethylene, http://www.ticona.com/index/products/uhmw-pe.htm ;note the second paragraph talking about the difference in forming process vs thermoplastics (e.g. polyurethane).

Re: polyurethane, http://www.sdplastics.com/polyuret.html , note the commentary about avoiding constant use above 225 degrees F in the "heat and cold resistence" section.

One disadvantage of polyethylene in automotive use is it is not resistant to petrochemicals (e.g. gasoline, lube oil, etc.)whereas polyurethane is.  In the case of your mounts that's likely not an issue because you don't allow leaks to attack the material.

[Mr Cool]

Ive had polyurethane engine mounts in my touring car for many years, and believe me they have been subjected to some pretty serious heat from the exhaust with the extractors glowing red hot for some time, and Ive NEVER had a problem with them. Exhaust is probably 2 inches (maybe less) from the mounts in a confined engine bay.
Mine were custom made using the old rubber mounts, removed all traces of rubber and moulded new urethane in place. This has stiffened up the mounts considerably transferring more power to the ground when needed. I need to follow some srtict rules to comply with the regulations for Group C racing here in Australia (must use engine mounts in original configuration) and this is how we get around it.
Ive no idea why yours are spewing out worms like that. If urethane is mixed correctly before being poured into the mould it should never happen.

[Pope Downunder]

A friend of mine recently installed Energy Suspension polyurethane motor mounts in his 39 Olds.  After 1 trip of 400 miles, this is what was dripping out of the mount.  Neither the vendor or Energy Suspension will stand by their product.  The car has block hugger headers but they are a reasonable distance from the mounts.  I thought this might be a heads up if you are thinking about using these mounts.

I wonder if the mix, wasn't mixed properly?  In effect; trapping an area of still-plastic material.  Under heat and stress it could squeeze out through a weak spot.

[C9]

Thanks for the info Uncle Bob.
Interesting reading.

So far the UHMW doesn't seem to have a problem with engine oil.

I made a set of UHMW biscuits for the rear motor mounts on a flat 6 Plymouth that leaked oil on the right side and the mounts hung in there ok for a couple of years.

It could be interesting to put some UHMW cutoffs into an oil filled and perhaps gasoline filled container to see what happened.

Looking from here and the fact that UHMW is used in industry for sliding bearing applications as well as an impact resistant material that common conveyer belt and other industrial mechanism lubricating liquids don't seem to hurt it.

[rumrumm]

I would suggest shipping them back and asking for a replacement. Once they see them, I would be surprised if they did not accommodate you, especially if you send a nice letter along with it.

[DrJ]

I have experienced this in the past, on truck cab mounts. the urethane looks like you hit it with a torch, melted and dripping out. The cause was vibration. Urethan has most of the attributes of rubber, but it will melt when heated. Severe vibration, heats them up so much the urethane just spontaneously melts. We stopped using the urethane mounts for that reason.

Now, what is causing the vibration on his car is another subject, but it can cause this problem.

This makes a lot of sense.
There are vibration welders for plastics that use this quality to "rub" two pieces of plastic together till they melt and then weld together when the vibration stops.
Metals are spin-welded together in some manufacturing processes.
If urethane motor mounts were a good idea, new cars would have them, so far I've only seen the stuff on the front and back ends of cars instead of chrome bumpers...

If it was a case of the materials not being mixed properly, (Urethanes like that are commonly a 50%-50% two part RTV) it would have been a puddle in the shipping package before ever being mounted.

But, does this company think sending you another set is going to cost them more than the bad PR you're going to give them for the next forever?

[WZ JUNK]

Here is a better picture of the whole mount.  The manufacture says that this happens sometimes with tight tuck headers.  They will not replace the mount.

[1FATGMC]

Here is a better picture of the whole mount.  The manufacture says that this happens sometimes with tight tuck headers.  They will not replace the mount.

I think I would send them an e-mail saying thanks for their help with the problem and include a link to this post.  I'm sure they would be interested in seeing pictures of their product on the net.

c ya, Sum

[DrJ]

I think I would send them an e-mail saying thanks for their help with the problem and include a link to this post.  I'm sure they would be interested in seeing pictures of their product on the net.

c ya, Sum

They should come with a disclaimer "For "show only" Street Rods that are not actually driven and not for use around engines that ever attain normal operating temperatures."