Boxing a Frame

BELLM · December 05, 2004, 11:41:25 AM

I am rebuilding my 32 Ford frame, has obviously had several lives as K member was so bad nothing left to save, rear crossmember butchered up, old boxing plate was probably about 12 gauge, full of holes & old welds from long gone attachments, cut it all out. I have just about got all the unnecessary holes welded up, got the frame cleaned up,getting ready to build a good X member& box the frame.
I basically know what I am doing but learn something every day, every car I see. I think I am going to weld the boxing plate inside the frame, about an inch from the edge. Since I don't have a band saw, plasma cutter etc I bought Speedway boxing plates.
Comments, thoughts, advice? School me like a baby, explain all the basics, maybe you can help fix my bad habits or correct any misconceptions I have taken as fact.
Thanks!

Dave · December 05, 2004, 02:46:48 PM

Quote from: "BELLM"I am rebuilding my 32 Ford frame, has obviously had several lives as K member was so bad nothing left to save, rear crossmember butchered up, old boxing plate was probably about 12 gauge, full of holes & old welds from long gone attachments, cut it all out. I have just about got all the unnecessary holes welded up, got the frame cleaned up,getting ready to build a good X member& box the frame.
I basically know what I am doing but learn something every day, every car I see. I think I am going to weld the boxing plate inside the frame, about an inch from the edge. Since I don't have a band saw, plasma cutter etc I bought Speedway boxing plates.
Comments, thoughts, advice? School me like a baby, explain all the basics, maybe you can help fix my bad habits or correct any misconceptions I have taken as fact.
Thanks!

So cal makes a steped boxed frame and ive got mixed feelings about it as far as how it looks. I guess it works ok but i like em boxed at the edge. So Cal says its easier to run brake lines etc but you still gotta drill holes and mount em... there is a pic although it could be better of my frame on my web site. http://home.comcast.net/~n8dc-8/hotrod0.html
Dave

Bib_Overalls · December 05, 2004, 03:44:48 PM

I have the SoCal framr under my roadster. I like the way it is boxed. The plates are about 3/8 to 1/4 inch in. Im Remis' (sp?) chassis how to book has a full chapter with some good pictures. They weld in small blocks to get the inset even. The blocks under the top rail are drilled and tapped when the body is fitted.

My chassis is black and in inset is not noticable at all. That might not be the case with a brighter color.

The inset provided some additional and much needed clearance for the cable to the starter. And the break lines are protected.

40 · December 05, 2004, 10:00:59 PM

I like the look of the boxing plate being recessed but I think 3/4 to 1" is too much...in my opinion,1/4 or so looks much better.Good luck and Welcome!!

BELLM · December 05, 2004, 10:28:29 PM

Thanks! 1/4 to 3/8" it will be! I like the idea of welding in blocks to keep even spacing. This is what I was looking for. Any other ideas?

Curly · December 05, 2004, 11:03:32 PM

Boyd says to box it his way and Blue Bear says no boxing at all.

I like the recessed boxing and no more than a 1/2 inch deep.

jaybee · December 05, 2004, 11:22:51 PM

Quote from: "Curly"Boyd says to box it his way and Blue Bear says no boxing at all. :lol:quote]

Yeah, but Blue Bear doesn't have a job!

Roadstar · December 06, 2004, 07:50:47 AM

The one advantage to the stepped style of boxing is the weld is not ground off. I have seen some frames built by big name frame shops that have actually split at the weld seam because it was ground too much and had no filler metal left for strength.

I heard a story once, that the SO-Cal frames came about when some boxing were ordered and came in too small. so they just put them to the inside instead of scraping all the pieces.

We might have to get with the MythBusters to solve that one

Curly · December 06, 2004, 09:09:11 AM

Quote from: "jaybee"
Quote from: "Curly"Boyd says to box it his way and Blue Bear says no boxing at all. :lol:quote]

Yeah, but Blue Bear doesn't have a job!

Sure he does...with another Ex-Boyd employee... Jimmy White.

Model A's and hemi's are the shop theme over there. Blue Bear is ditching the flatty and running a Hemi in it now and will be boxing the frame for the torque monster he is building his way. There is more than one way to build a rod (Boyd's way) and ....never mind. I'll leave the drama over on another board.

GPster · December 06, 2004, 09:18:42 AM

Just one idea, (just have to say it but it probably would be for a SHOW vehicle). I've always liked frame rails that look like square/rectangular tubing. Would be hard to do with boxing plates because of the quality of the weld depth. What about getting another set of rails, triming the top and bottom of the rail down so that the radius of the bends and the full side section of the rail is intact, and then reversing the curviture of that rail so that it will selve as the boxing plate? Then your welds would be on the top and bottom of the rails and not an edge weld or an inside filler weld. The radius of the edges should look the same on the inside and outside and it would make them appear like they were formed from mechanical tubing. You could even play around some with the width of the frame rails by how of the tops and bottoms of each set of rails you left. This would probably need to be done on a jig to keep the outside rails intact. This is probably a thought that comes about because flat welding has always been easier ( note: nothing has been said about quality ) for me. GPster

Dirk35 · December 06, 2004, 09:48:39 AM

I like the stepped boxed frames also. But, you HAVE to do nice clean welds as you will not be able to clean them up. Use lots of anti-spatter spray.

If you weld the box plate on the edge of the frame, you can weld deeper with better penetration (well, it is mandatory) as you will then grind it back off for a clean smooth look.

Use the same thickness metal or one gauge thicker as the origianl rails.

Dirk35 · December 06, 2004, 09:59:52 AM

I have a question on this same subject!

Do any of you drill drain/ventallation holes in your box frames?

Reason I ask, mine frame rails are totally sealed except for bolt holes on the 35, of which all have a bolt in them. Well, at the base where my rear sub-frame (its pro-streeted), I have a small stainless self tapping screw holding the fuel lines on. Anyway, I pulled it out to add a clamp for the wiring a couple of days ago, and it was very corroded and actually wet to the touch. My truck is kept in the garage, which I heat when I go out there. It also is wher emy dryer vents.

Should I drill a vent hole at the bottom of each rail?

beatnik · December 06, 2004, 10:15:13 AM

This last weekend we stoped buy Ionia Hot Rod Shop and they had this frame they were working on, had a few things I hadn't seen before.

The boxing plates are U shaped and they used steel bocks in the rails for spacing them out. They drilled holes in the rails and plug welded the plates in place from the top.

Curly · December 06, 2004, 10:32:39 AM

Quote from: "Dirk35"I have a question on this same subject!

Do any of you drill drain/ventallation holes in your box frames?

Should I drill a vent hole at the bottom of each rail?

I have always drilled a small hole to allow condensation to drain. I'm fairly new to this game so what do I know? I like to run my wiring inside the frame too and I figure drier is better and rubber grommets are my friends.

I do have a question along the same lines as boxing though.

On my latest frame I plan on swiss cheesing it ala 1 1/2" -2" holes from the firewall forward. I have tapered frame rails made from 2x4 rec tubing that has .125 wall thickness. I want the holes to look chamfered from both sides so I will be welding in tubing flared on both ends. Will exhaust pipe tubing be enough? I know that the 2x4 will be strong enough if I leave it alone but once I put holes in it I feel I'll have to reinforce the stress points that I added.

I'm running a mild blown SBC (580-600hp) in a 2,000 lb 1928 Ford truck with a Muncie 4 speed and a spooled rearend. I'm not easy on my stuff and I already see a serious need for a stiff frame. I'm going for a '60's fuel altered look and holes in the frame will tie in with the rest of the theme...Model T grille shell stuffed with a moon tank....hidden radiator and in the near future a set of funny car style zoomies

enjenjo · December 06, 2004, 11:17:47 AM

I don't think vent holes are needed. We live in a humid area, and when cutting into a boxed frame I seldom find more than light surface rust. By the way, if moisture is getting into the frame, it's not sealed, it's found an opening somewhere. I'd be looking for a crack. A small hole at the low point couldn't hurt though.

On the chamfered holes in the frame, the Ionia Rod Shop presses the chamfer in with a tool using a through bolt for pressure. The tool would be fairly easy to make, although they are available. I would use .120 wall tubing, which is fairly easy to find, easier to weld for one.