What am I missing on the Ford?

[58 Yeoman]

I finally got all the parts in for the Ford.  Installed new oil pump/screen, removed the oil filter housing to make sure everything was clear and open, watched the oil drive shaft turn as I turned over the engine, checked a rod and main bearing, and they looked good, but the car still doesn't have oil pressure.  I pulled the pressure sending unit this afternoon, and turned the engine over.  The oil barely comes out.

What am I missing here?  The oil leaves the pump and goes right to the filter and sending unit.  The dipstick is now showing about a quart low, after turning it over a few times. :?:

[enjenjo]

Which engine? Is this car new to you?

[58 Yeoman]

Yeah, it's new to me.  This is the one that I was driving home when the oil light came on and the lifters started to rattle.  I had it towed home and just got it together Sunday.  It's got the 390 4bbl.  I've read where it should only take 7 pounds to turn off the light (I don't have a pressure gauge), and even using a test light from the battery to the sender, the test light stays on.  That's why I pulled the sender and turned it over.

[Arnold]

My .02.

  If it was mine. I would put a gauge on it first.
(I am assuming you have 10/30 in it)
  Then I would drive the oil pump with a drill.
   After that..,put the old oil pump back on it,bearing leak test it,leak test it while manual turning it over,rocker covers off,intake off.
  Next I guess ya gotta pull the cam out..see how that looks.

   Sorry..running engine..oil pressure drops..full of good oil. Your sure it has the right dipstick..lots of oil. I had a friend the oil light came on..lost pressure. Did this after it was dealer serviced.
Stick full..he added oil anyway..light off..oil pressure ok. Then it kept happening.

  Till he changed the oil himself and realized that somehow during service
it got the wrong dipstick put back in.

  I had another friend with a  brand new Ford Van that burned oil from day one..he just kept pouring it in. He was back at the dealer too often.

  Wrong dipstick.

[GPster]

Or I wonder if it could be something like the problem like Wayne warned me about on the AMC engine in my (used to be) Jeep. The oil pressure tap is at the end of a gallery and it gets restricted or plugged. Of course it could be like a Chevy with a bad cam lobe that has wiped out the bottom of a lifter. I'd hate to pull the intake of a 390 for anything less than a rebuild. GPster

[tomslik]

what oil filter?

[58 Yeoman]

Motorcraft FL1

[wayne petty]

FE oil system mods with pictures...

http://www.fordfe.info/Forum/Oil.html


i would pull the oil filter adaptor off... spin the pump again.. i normally try to use a LONG oil pump shaft.. even if you have to buy a pair of them and weld them together..  they are either going to be 1/4 or 5/16 hex rod...

Melling/Oil Pump Shaft
For your 1969 Ford Truck F100 1/2 ton P/U 2WD 6.4L 2BL OHV 8cyl
Price: $10.99  Part Number: IS-60  Alternate Part Number: 53011
Material:   Steel
Size:   8.53 in. length by 1/4 in. hex with snap ring. Hardened at both ends

you will probably need to cut the last few inches off a pair to weld them properly without the fear of shattering and spreading debris in the engine..



could the oil pump gasket that seals the pick up tube to the pump housing be missing and it attempting to pull air up into the pump??? are there bubbles in the oil coming out??? should NOT be..

could the gasket that seals the pump to the block have slipped out of place.?? or gotten bent and broken as it was being installed so there is a gap??

could something be stuck in the oil galley.. the pick up tube TOO CLOSE to the bottom of the pan... ?


there are some great diagrams here

http://www.fordification.com/tech/schematics_e.htm

trans adapt makes these for FE motors..



Bolt-on Style Oil Filter Bypass Adapter- 1957 (or Later) Ford 332, 352, 390, 406, 428 V8s

[wayne petty]

Felpro/Oil Pump Gasket
this one has a ROUND hole for the screen to mount to the pump body.

Part Number: 72516
Alternate Part Number: B72516
Notes: Inlet tube gasket




Felpro/Oil Pump Gasket
this one has an oval opening in the middle of the gasket to mount the pump to the block ..

Part Number: 11792
Alternate Part Number: B11792



this is the oil filter bracket mounting gasket..

Felpro/Oil Filter Cover Gasket
Part Number: 70135
Alternate Part Number: B70135

or the Victor gasket part number
Victor Reinz/Oil Filter Cover Gasket
Part Number: B25451
Notes: Adapter to block.

[enjenjo]

On FE engines I have has the bypass valve stick in both the open and closed position. Open, no oil pressure. Closed, blows the filter out.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

On FE engines I have has the bypass valve stick in both the open and closed position. Open, no oil pressure. Closed, blows the filter out.

yuuup.  The industrial engines that Ford used in U-Hual trucks were the same.  Years ago: I had commercial accounts that loved to buy old U-Hual trucks with 330 engines in them

[58 Yeoman]

A little more on the car...

The car ran fine, no noises, etc. when I took it for a test drive.  Driving down I-80 at around 65mph, the light came on.  I pulled over and heard one lifter tapping.  I drove a little farther to get to a pull off, and more lifters were tapping.  Had it trucked home.  The first thing I did was pull the Carquest filter and replaced it with the Ford filter that I had, thinking that maybe it had collapsed, etc.  Same thing.

I've never had an oil pump quit on me, but stranger things have happened.  After installing the new pump and screen, filling the engine with fresh Valvoline, I started the engine.  Light went out, lifters started quieting down.  All is good.  I took it for a ride, got a few blocks and the light came back on, and has been on since.   :?:

I have other projects going that have to be done before I get down to being able to work on this again, so it may take a while before I can dive into it again, but I will be trying the various fixes as I get time.  The first will be to buy a test gauge, and pull the distributor to turn the shaft with a drill to see what happens.  It's just odd that it happened all of a sudden, was fixed, then happened again.

BTW, I had removed the filter block and cleaned it and ran wires through the holes just to be sure.  When I installed the gaskets, I used the oval hole on the pump and the round hole on the screen, and both lined up perfectly (mellings pump, felpro gaskets).  

I also had turned the engine over while the pan was off, and watched/held the driveshaft, and it felt solid.  Thought was that maybe the shaft was rounded on top.  I guess I'll find out for sure when I pull the dist.

Thanks for all the help so far, and the suggestions.

[wayne petty]

last thought.. and i take it you spent the half hour reading the upper link i posted above..


how is the PCV system.. is there a crankcase breather filter of some kind on one of the valve covers to prevent the PCV system from building up massive amounts of vacuum and pulling the bottom of the pan upward and closing off the oil pickup...

i was looking at an oil pump catalog a few months ago...  one of the screens had little steps on it in 3 or 4 places to prevent the bottom of the pan from smothering the opening in the pickup...

if you do remove the oil pump...  please break it down and examine the relief screen.. any sand that was in the oil system could have gotten in and eaten up the oil pump rotor housing and destroyed the pump...

i have had that happen a few times.. especially with some of the OE aluminum pumps..

i have also had oil turn to a thick jello type of mass.. that took overnight to drain when i pulled the plug..  think heinz catsup .. how slow can it go..

i have seen pick up screens that got covered by dog hair..

we await the flow test results..

and the pressure results..

http://www.harborfreight.com/engine-oil-pressure-test-kit-98949.html

oh a hint.. did in the socket drawer for the 1/4" six point deep 1/4" drive socket.. the 1/4" x 12" extension.. or an 1/4x3/8 adaptor and a 3/8 extension and your speed handle..  depending on which size you may have.. that is about perfect to spin the oil pump with to get a real feel of if its pumping or not..

please. tape the sockets and extensions together..  so they cannot fall apart and drop into the motor..  been there.. done that..

[58 Yeoman]

Pulled the distributor today and found that the inside of the shaft was rounded and not turning the pump shaft.  Put the drill on the shaft and it's putting out 70 - 80#; hope that's not too high!  It's a Mellings high volume pump.  I've ordered a reman dist. from NAPA, and hope it doesn't take as long to get it as it did the pump, etc. from Autozone; nine days, plus another 2 days for one of the motor mounts.

Could it be that the first pump locked up for a bit, and that rounded out the shaft?  There were no pieces in the pan and just a minor amount of sludge near the drain plug.  I'll have to switch over the Pertronix ignition on the new dist.

[wayne petty]

please use some kind of magnets in the oil pan.. away from the pickup tube. to collect any small fragments of metal.. that might be floating around...


i use neodymium magnets

you can get fragments from Perm magnet starters..

from high powered heater blower or fan motors..

best place is from dead hard drives..  most of them have them but they have a chrome type of coating...

you could also invest in a magnetic drain plug... but make sure it has some strength... as there is a lot of circulation of oil in the pan...


70 or 80 pounds sounds like a LOT of pressure on that oil pump...  

also... since you have the oil pan off to change the pump shaft... as they don't easily pull out of the top...

can you install the distributor ... install the shaft and the pump... then work the shaft up and down to verify it's fully engaging...

i have run into horrible issues with 5.0L fords.. where the oil pump drive shaft only engages with the bottom of the distributer about 5/16 of an inch.. i can move it up and down when installed upside down almost 3/4's of an inch..

stripping out the HEX is a worry of mine for a LONG time..


this is a $15 billet oil pump shaft.. arp also makes these..

http://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/-strse-30/FE-Ford-1-fdsh-4%22-Billet/Detail.bok

if you have your pump off.. or have an extended shaft to prime the oil pump.. please verify the max pressure it will create.. perhaps the internal bypass valve is seized..

the pump should come up to a specific pressure and not create more.. as the pressure pushes the piston back that dumps excessive flow back into the pump inlet..

lastly.. did you get a chance to read the linked extended website on FE oiling mods above..