I just bought a 48 Ford F1

348tripower · August 12, 2004, 12:43:54 PM

Going to pick it up Saturday morining.

Now the questions start! Anybody here have any experience with one of these? What does it take to lower the front end without subframing it? I have a 355 Chevy and a turbo 350 in stock also a 9" for the rear. What would be a good replacement steering box to use with the stock I beam? If I go that route. Any suggestions and past experience is greatly appreciated.

Don

av8 · August 12, 2004, 07:36:47 PM

Quote from: "348tripower"Going to pick it up Saturday morining. Now the questions start! Anybody here have any experience with one of these? What does it take to lower the front end without subframing it? I have a 355 Chevy and a turbo 350 in stock also a 9" for the rear. What would be a good replacement steering box to use with the stock I beam? If I go that route. Any suggestions and past experience is greatly appreciated.
Don

Congratulations, Don! There isn't a cooler Ford pickup than the '48-'50 F-1, IMHO.

I'll be dropping my '48 in a couple of weeks, after the "salt" from Speed Week has settled and things return to normal. I'm considering several options for the front. I have an excellent old Mor-Drop 3-inch dropped axle, plus several spring options from which to choose -- new spring packs with reversed eyes and less arch than stock, new main leaves with reversed eyes to use with the original front spring packs, and Posies Super Slides with a reversed eye at the forward end of the spring.

I'd like to try all the combinations so I can develop some comprehensive instructions about how much the various combinations drop the front end, although at this point the reversed-eye springs will probably give me what I'm looking for. (My '48 is an exceptionally clean original F-1, rust and damage free, with an old inexpensive respray in the original color. I'm going to stick with a flathead V8, but am replacing the old four-speed with a late Mustang T-5. I'm doing the truck in the style of a '50s speed shop truck, so I'm not looking to get it super low.)

My '48 has been well maintained throughout a rather liesurely life and drives amazingly sweet for a 56-year-old vehicle. I've driven late-'80s F-150s that didn't ride any better! In spite of that, I'm going to rebuild the suspension and steering during the drop. This includes new kingpins and bushings, new tie-rod ends, new drag-link ends, and new shocks.

I'm uncertain about what I'll do with the steering. At present, it's quite good and may need no more than service and adjustment, possibly sector bushings. You're bound to hear many complaints about F-1 and early F-100 steering, but other than requiring a bit more muscle than more-modern units, they work great when in good condition and service, and when the rest of the front end and steering wear points are also correct. The complaints about the original steering go up as the front
comes down. The most common complaint is about the truck wandering all over the road at highway speeds after reversed-eye springs or a dropped axle are installed , but the culprit isn't as likely to be the steering box as it is the lack of caster; it's 1 to 3-1/2 degrees stock which isn't very much to begin with, and dropping only the front end several inches scrubs off a couple of degrees which isn't going to improve the situation. There's been some discussion here with enjenjo who is a big fan of 5 or more degrees, so caster wedges are definitely in order.

For all that, I'm considering a change to R&P steering mounted directly on the axle because that will give me an F-1 steering box for my next hot rod project!

The R&P conversion has been done with great success, using a rear-steer rack from a smallish Chevy (I don't have the model or year info handy right now), connected to the original column with a U-joint and a GM slip joint to accomodate up-and-down movement of the axle. Of course, the lower end of the steering mast jacket and column must be secured either at the firewall or the frame. I don't know if this changeover will occur right away. I'll be doing my work in Kent Fuller's shop and Kent is a strong advocate of the R&P changeover, but I think he might let me "slide" for awhile so I can gather more seat-time and information with the suspension changes using the original steering.

I don't know that this is any real help right now, Don, but I'll keep you posted here on the RRT as things progress. Hope you'll do the same.

Mike

348tripower · August 13, 2004, 05:29:50 AM

Mike,
I will keep you posted. I will post some pictures this weekend. This is a California truck with much surface rust. I am going to rod it and not touch the outside right away. I guess it would be a rat rod. But, you don't get much for 1600.00 bucks. It looks to be very solid, but I will know a lot more tomorrow morning. Thanks for your input.
Don

Quote from: "av8"
Quote from: "348tripower"Going to pick it up Saturday morining. Now the questions start! Anybody here have any experience with one of these? What does it take to lower the front end without subframing it? I have a 355 Chevy and a turbo 350 in stock also a 9" for the rear. What would be a good replacement steering box to use with the stock I beam? If I go that route. Any suggestions and past experience is greatly appreciated.
Don

Congratulations, Don! There isn't a cooler Ford pickup than the '48-'50 F-1, IMHO.

I'll be dropping my '48 in a couple of weeks, after the "salt" from Speed Week has settled and things return to normal. I'm considering several options for the front. I have an excellent old Mor-Drop 3-inch dropped axle, plus several spring options from which to choose -- new spring packs with reversed eyes and less arch than stock, new main leaves with reversed eyes to use with the original front spring packs, and Posies Super Slides with a reversed eye at the forward end of the spring.

I'd like to try all the combinations so I can develop some comprehensive instructions about how much the various combinations drop the front end, although at this point the reversed-eye springs will probably give me what I'm looking for. (My '48 is an exceptionally clean original F-1, rust and damage free, with an old inexpensive respray in the original color. I'm going to stick with a flathead V8, but am replacing the old four-speed with a late Mustang T-5. I'm doing the truck in the style of a '50s speed shop truck, so I'm not looking to get it super low.)

My '48 has been well maintained throughout a rather liesurely life and drives amazingly sweet for a 56-year-old vehicle. I've driven late-'80s F-150s that didn't ride any better! In spite of that, I'm going to rebuild the suspension and steering during the drop. This includes new kingpins and bushings, new tie-rod ends, new drag-link ends, and new shocks.

I'm uncertain about what I'll do with the steering. At present, it's quite good and may need no more than service and adjustment, possibly sector bushings. You're bound to hear many complaints about F-1 and early F-100 steering, but other than requiring a bit more muscle than more-modern units, they work great when in good condition and service, and when the rest of the front end and steering wear points are also correct. The complaints about the original steering go up as the front
comes down. The most common complaint is about the truck wandering all over the road at highway speeds after reversed-eye springs or a dropped axle are installed , but the culprit isn't as likely to be the steering box as it is the lack of caster; it's 1 to 3-1/2 degrees stock which isn't very much to begin with, and dropping only the front end several inches scrubs off a couple of degrees which isn't going to improve the situation. There's been some discussion here with enjenjo who is a big fan of 5 or more degrees, so caster wedges are definitely in order.

For all that, I'm considering a change to R&P steering mounted directly on the axle because that will give me an F-1 steering box for my next hot rod project! The R&P conversion has been done with great success, using a rear-steer rack from a smallish Chevy (I don't have the model or year info handy right now), connected to the original column with a U-joint and a GM slip joint to accomodate up-and-down movement of the axle. Of course, the lower end of the steering mast jacket and column must be secured either at the firewall or the frame. I don't know if this changeover will occur right away. I'll be doing my work in Kent Fuller's shop and Kent is a strong advocate of the R&P changeover, but I think he might let me "slide" for awhile so I can gather more seat-time and information with the suspension changes using the original steering.

I don't know that this is any real help right now, Don, but I'll keep you posted here on the RRT as things progress. Hope you'll do the same.

Mike

Dirk35 · August 13, 2004, 11:30:14 AM

Don, thats cool! I personally like the 51 better, but I am selling my 51 and keeping my 48 F-1(titled as a 49 so I call it a 49)....go figure. Anyway, keep us posted as I love seeing pictures of the F-1s. Wish I could be of help, but My 49 frame that I got with it had been unproperly subframed (it wasnt in there square) with a camaro clip. And the frame under the parts truck was a late model Marcury Marquis shortened (I had to re-do it also as they just chopped the rail and butted them together and welded).

Anyway, Mike has been keeping us updated on his 48, so he will be one of your better resources as he goes through it. I really do enjoy seeing his truck each time he pops a new pic of it up.

GPster · August 17, 2004, 11:45:56 PM

If I remember correctly the '48 and later had the Airhart style of self- accuating brakes and 11" drums. One of the big change overs used to be using the '57 Chrysler Imperial 14" wheels. They would make a better conversion on 11" drums than they would on the old Ford 12" drums because there would be more room between the wheels and drums for cooling. I think somebody here has a pair (or 3) in his barn. Because these trucks steer with a drag-link rather than cross-steer you might look at what "Pete and Jake" used to do by setting a early Mustang box on it's side and have the pittman arm start at the bottom of the frame and point up. A lot of the wandering problems with the steeing on these trucks can be cured by adding some kind of track-bar to the front and it would probably be a necessity if you went to some kind of cross-steer box arrangement. GPster

bowtietillidie · August 18, 2004, 12:45:03 AM

I also own a 49 F1 that I am installing a big block Chevy and Turbo400 So far I have not had to butcher any thing. I want the truck done so it can be put back stock should I ever want . I removed the old steering and now I have started to reserch the thought of installing a R&P .

My biggest problem so far is getting around the lead pipe on the left header I am using a set of Headmen headers that fit a 67 to 69 Camaro or Nova.
These fit in the frame with only one very small ding to one pipe on the right side that hit the back of the front spring anchor pin. I have tried
two different Racks both mid size GM . The steering shaft on both set to far to the right and make for a tuff fit up around the lead pipe on the left header. I am reserching the NAPA steering catalog ( Weatherly index 174) and have foung about five different racks that may fit. I am now leaning toward using a Mustang 2 rack. If any body has any information on what rack to use or has done this conversion I would to like hear what you have to say. Good or bad opinions are welcome. Before I forget
Thanks to AV8 for the website on steering componets , Rob/bowtietillidie

GPster · August 18, 2004, 09:29:20 AM

Quote from: "bowtietillidie"I removed the old steering and now I have started to reserch the thought of installing a R&P . I understand in simple terms most of what is involved in theory with these combinations of components and the reason you don't see it too often is that the rack should be mounted to the axel and that means that the suspension travel needs to be dealt with in the column , between the rack and the steering wheel. To keep your stock axel and spindles and stay in theory with "Ackerman" you would probably end up with a rear-steer rack. One that has the inner tie rod ends fasten near the center of the rack off a FWD GM product would give you nice long tie rods and would come closer to mating old technology to new. I imagine that this is going to make quite a monstrocity hanging from your axel and not give you much room for your headers. With your desire to be able to put this truck back-to-stock if you wanted to I'd look for someone that has a bolt-in Mustang II crossmember. GPster

bowtietillidie · August 18, 2004, 11:06:13 PM

Thanks Gpster

for the offer, I have a Mustang 2 cross member (fat man ) and may have to use it. I have done a good bit of reserch on this idea and I think I can do this without making any changes ( all bolt in ) The biggest thing will be mounting the rack . I made a profile template of the front axel . I beleive I can mill out a couple of pieces of steel to fit the axel then mount the rack to them all the while keeping the rack square to the axel and level to the ground . This mount will hold the rack in a staright line with the steering arms so the ackerman will not be changed ( steering arms remain in stock position) Now for the movement of the axel. I am looking to lay the rack over about 90 degrees so the steering shaft is parallel to the ground. As the axel moves up and down
it also swings an arc as near as I can figure in four inches of travel in bump and four inches in rebound. there is about .040. arc movement from static height ,above and below the static line. I beleive there will be maybe a little more at the steering shaft do to the fact that the steering shaft is now moved away from the steering arm centerline. Now take the .040 figure and double it this will be the amount of slide needed for the steering to work with out bind. I THINK, I HOPE I have one other little problem with this set up that being clearing the steering shaft with the lead pipe on the left header. I am thinking of cutting the left rod that the tie rod screws on allowing the rack to move to the left . Then rethreading this rod, then using a short tie rod in the left side. Then make a male, female piece for the right side and add the right tie rod. I think this can be done without changing any geometry I HOPE. Maybe Bob Paulin could give us his opinion on all this craziness. I hope I have explained this good enough that every one understands what I am trying explain. I think it is easier to build than explain a project . What say you RRT'ers

Rob

Ed ke6bnl · August 19, 2004, 03:39:01 PM

I have a 1949 Stock F1, but my first project has been my 1950 F1 that I put a mustang II, with 11" disc power brakes, power steering, 9" rear end 3.5:1 posi rear gears, and here goes a 327 63 vette motor with a 700r4, griffin al. radiator with dual spall fans, moved the gas tank to the back and the filler I put in the rear fender well, and to my surprise the truck runs great and handles great. My first truck you guessed it was a 1950 F1 that I drove to college when they weren"t cool. Now my boy and I will be starting a auto body class in a couple of weeks to start on the outside. He did a large part of the tig welding and that was when he was 16 he now has decided to be a certified welder. And top it off my wife loves the truck. Ed ke6bnl

bowtietillidie · August 19, 2004, 04:01:12 PM

ED K6BNL Did you use the Mustang2 cross member or mount the rack on the old straight axel.
Rob[/quote]

Ed ke6bnl · August 19, 2004, 05:39:30 PM

Quote from: "bowtietillidie"ED K6BNL Did you use the Mustang2 cross member or mount the rack on the old straight axel.
Rob

[/quote]

I used a Heidts mustang II suspension, the r&p came with rack extenders so there would not be any bump steer. I got the tubular A arms so I would not need to use the strut rods. The front bumber sits about 5 in at the lowest point,

Ed ke6bnl · August 19, 2004, 05:40:09 PM

Quote from: "bowtietillidie"ED K6BNL Did you use the Mustang2 cross member or mount the rack on the old straight axel.
Rob

[/quote]

I used a Heidts mustang II suspension, the r&p came with rack extenders so there would not be any bump steer. I got the tubular A arms so I would not need to use the strut rods. The front bumber sits about 5 in at the lowest point,

av8 · August 20, 2004, 07:53:20 PM

Don -- Check my reply on your other thread. Sorry to lose you.

Mike

bowtietillidie · August 20, 2004, 10:46:56 PM

I just bought a 48 Ford F1

To all who were discussing this post MY Apology. When I read this post and found mention of a 1948 F1 that may get a Rack & Pinoin installed
on the old straight axel it hit a nerve. I am trying to do this little chore on my truck (48 F1). I never thought I just jumped in and started asking questions there by highjacking the tread. I have suffered stupidity when near a computer ever since I have owned a computer . I am a LITTLE slow this thought just hit tonight as I set here reading what every body is talking about ONCE a again SOOOOOOOOOORY :oops: :oops:

av8 · August 21, 2004, 03:01:02 PM

Quote from: "bowtietillidie"I just bought a 48 Ford F1

To all who were discussing this post MY Apology. When I read this post and found mention of a 1948 F1 that may get a Rack & Pinoin installed
on the old straight axel it hit a nerve. I am trying to do this little chore on my truck (48 F1). I never thought I just jumped in and started asking questions there by highjacking the tread. I have suffered stupidity when near a computer ever since I have owned a computer . I am a LITTLE slow this thought just hit tonight as I set here reading what every body is talking about ONCE a again SOOOOOOOOOORY :oops: :oops:

I don't see that you have anything to aplologize for. The original request for ideas and info talked about a beam-axle front end and that's what I responded to with my long-winded reply. Had the request been for info on Pinto/Mustang II IFS I wouldn't have responded because I have no experience with it. Don't be so hard on yourself.