73-87 X member on '49 1 ton chevy panel frame

[Danimal]

OK. I've decided I'm tired of being sick and we need to clean up around here so we are starting on Eli's 1 ton panel truck. As some may recall, it has a '79 Heavy Half cross member welded with 1/2" plate to the frame.

The problem is the steering box looks like it's going to be set out too far because the guy who put the plates on made them run all the way down the frame past the box. I can see I'll already have a clearance issue with the body of the box because it would have a frame that is "indented" to accept it and this is flat plate.

Anyone have an idea what the frame dimensions should be at this point of the 73-87 frame? I'm thinking of going on a "measurement" hunt at the local truck yard. I certainly hope I don't have to cut these plates off because they are seriously ON THERE. Eli will get some pictures shortly so you can see my quandry.

I don't think going back to "stock" is an option with this frame.

[OldSub]

OK. I've decided I'm tired of being sick

I can sure identify with that!  Next week will mark 9 months my life has been run by cancer and cancer docs.  I'm ready to be done with this!

The last couple weeks have been tough from that standpoint, plus my notebook died and its taken me a little while to get back to where I can reliably get on line.  I think both problems are improving, so its full speed ahead using a walker to almost make it to the bathroom on time.

Dan this is the first place I've seen your question in a forum so I'll respond here.

I should also tell you up front I've decided to take a different approach on my truck, so I'll likely not finish the plates I was making to mount the IFS and steering.  That's a different story and I won't bog this thread down with it.

The problem is the steering box looks like it's going to be set out too far because the guy who put the plates on made them run all the way down the frame past the box.

When I started my project I had the complete donor frame on hand and used it to make a lot of measurements and comparisons to the 1-ton frame.

The donor frame is a little wider than the 1-ton both where the IFS attaches and where the steering box and idler arm attach.  Getting the steering right requires keeping the IFS, steering box and idler in right relationship to each other.  

I decided making a plate that would duplicate the mount points on the donor frame and fit appropriately to the 1-ton frame was the best answer.  Also I've been told that the steering box mount on the donor truck is one of the weak points on those trucks.

So my mount plates were designed to not create any stress points on the 1-ton frame, and locate the IFS and steering exactly as it was on the donor.

Though not quite finished, the plan was to extend from the front of the steering box all the way back to include the shock mount.  That makes it a pretty strong addition in the area where I'm putting a Cadillac 500 and should be very stable.

I was never satisfied that I was getting everything correct.  Before I got the shakes I had trouble getting my holes drilled accurately enough to please me, though I might be too picky.  There is a thread on the HAMB where people were seemingly upset with me because I wanted better than 1/32nd accuracy while others are saying they mount suspension 'dead nuts' accurate but would never say how they achieve that with home shop tools.

I believe my finished truck will be capable of running 100+ and while I don't expect to ever prove it, I want it safe if someone does.

By my measurements that plate should be 11/16ths at the !FS and four different dimensions at the steering box.

This isn't as easy a swap as many people claim.

I can see I'll already have a clearance issue with the body of the box because it would have a frame that is "indented" to accept it and this is flat plate.

This is one of the reasons I'm willing to explain my swap by don't encourage others to go this route.  

Anyone have an idea what the frame dimensions should be at this point of the 73-87 frame?

Take your cordless sawzall and come home with the frame chunk from another frame the right year range.  Nothing like being able to check and double-check those measurements.

I don't think going back to "stock" is an option with this frame.

It's always an option, just might be a LOT of work!

So briefly I kept going back and forth on single wheel versus dually and finally decided I want duals.  At the same time the opportunity to trade some parts I'm never going to use for a restored '71 1-ton dually frame came available.  I made the trade and will be building mounts to put my '54 GMC on the '72 1-ton dually frame instead of building suspension mounts.

While my concerns about my ability to get the suspension mounts right is now moot, I can say with confidence that the precision required for body mounts is enough lower than that for suspension that I'm much happier with this approach.

Also there are numerous examples of mounting the Cadillac 500 in this frame using a combination of only slightly modified factory parts instead of me needing to engineer and build mounts.

If I was not fighting the big C I might never had changed paths, but making the project a little easier at this time makes it far more likely I'll actually finish it.

[Danimal]

Thanks, Steve. I knew you'd have the answer! Even if it isn't what I wanted to hear right now...

I can dig with the 9 months. I'm at 10 now and feel like I'm back to where I was 6 months ago with not being able to walk or get much done. I can only do 50-55 minutes and then I'm done for the day.

Good call on the sawzall. I'll get with Dundee Truck & Trim and see what Howard has to say there. I'm sure he'll help me out for a bit. He's got a full frame for $200 but it's a short box. Maybe he'll let me borrow it for a week or so...not looking for a dually but what is the wheel base of the later model trucks? TooMany2Count was doing his Large Marge on an S10 but I don't want to lose the floor in the back.

3 holes are drilled in the frame, no tab for the 4th. The whole suspension is already welded AND bolted in. The truck was a roller when I bought it. The guy was pretty anal so I'm hoping he's got most of it right! I'm going with a BBC.

[OldSub]

I've been required to live within minutes of the clinic for the last five months so it doesn't matter that my endurance is low like yours.  I've not been allowed near my shop all this time.  Its not been fun and it appears I'll be off work at least another year.  I think you are ten years younger than me, but we're both way too young to be sidelined by health stuff!

Two weeks in a row I've been allowed a weekend pass home and I think in another couple weeks I'll be be back at home to stay.

I'd rather tell you what my mistakes are so you don't repeat them and hopefully others will have input that improves both our results.

Joe lengthened that S-10 frame to work under the panel.  I suspect keeping the floor at a given height could mean mounting the body a little higher.

Since my plan is to build a custom bed and my purpose is to build a trailer puller being longer is actually better.  I don't know the length of the frame I just got, hope to measure it tomorrow.  I want it in the 130 to 140 neighborhood, but the exact number doesn't matter except as a detail when I'm making my custom bed.

[enjenjo]

Dan, if Jerry Hubbard still has that stretched 1 ton frame he got from me, it has been modified for the later crossmember and steering. I'm sure he would let you measure it.

[Danimal]

Frank, I'm pretty sure he scrapped the frame shortly after I got the cabs from him last year.

I've got 2 S10 frames, 1 long bed, one short, out here that I COULD go with under the panel but Eli really doesn't want to. I'll make the effort on this one for a short while longer but I'm not killing myself for it!

I'd like to see a build thread on the truck from Dougs Custom Trailers or Dougs Antique Trailers. He says he put like a '90 under his but he hasn't answered emails. I'll search and post a link to the truck. Its a beaut!

Not enough details here!:

http://www.dougsvintagetrailers.com/1950_chevrolet_1_ton_panel_truck


And Steve, I'm 41 and have Sarcoid. They say 6-18 months and life should return to normal...it's been 10 and normal is a figment of my imagination! It isn't that I don't WANT to keep going, I just can't. It feels like someone has slipped 18" daggers into the bottom of both of my feet and now I have to walk on them as they push into my knees. Some days are better than others. I hope you continue to progress well and are home soon. Just try not to be a bear like I've been!!

I'm still shearing goats and a sheep today. Even if I have to sit on a bucket!

[Danimal]

Looks like a '96 2500 has a tread width of about 63.3" (1608 mm) where the '49 1 ton is at about 56.25". I really don't want the "stick out" on each side but I do have a running/driving long bed '88 out here that I swapped some parts and cash for. Pretty rotted body and Court has been replacing the brake lines...131.5" wheelbase. Only 6" short for the 1 ton. I may go hunting for an X cab 2500 frame.

[phat rat]

Looks like a '96 2500 has a tread width of about 63.3" (1608 mm) where the '49 1 ton is at about 56.25". I really don't want the "stick out" on each side but I do have a running/driving long bed '88 out here that I swapped some parts and cash for. Pretty rotted body and Court has been replacing the brake lines...131.5" wheelbase. Only 6" short for the 1 ton. I may go hunting for an X cab 2500 frame.

You could stretch the 88 frame the needed 6" instead of looking for another frame

[GPster]

I'd have to say unless those S10 frames are 4WD they have too narrow a tread width For a 1 ton panel truck. The people that are marketing the frame conversions are recommending 2" wheel spacers on each of the front hubs and substituting the 4x4 rear ends (4" wider) under the 2wd frames. The metric GM frames have a wider tread width but they only have a 108" wheelbase. If the 1 ton body has any wider fenders that the 1/2 ton maybe a camaro /fire bird front sub might be more in line and keep the body on the original frame. That certainly wouldn't help lowering the back end but the longer the wheelbase the more a ground scrapper it would be in the middle. There, I said something. GPster

[GPster]

Just an idea/suggestion. Why couldn't you take one of those later truck front cross members and narrow it? When I've looked at them either side with their "A" arms, spindle, idler arm and coil springs seems like a unit and is not dependent on the other unit except for the length of the center steering link. Years ago Pat Gunahl did an article on narrowing a Camaro frame clip to line up better with the frame of an early '50s chevy car. It would seem to me that if you narrowed the cross member and the steering link that you could get the wheels under the fenders,get the steering box to mount to the original frame and maybe be able to get rid of all that 1/2" plate. If the guy that did that isn't a better welder than a planner I'd wonder if he didn't burn through the original frame rails somewhere welding a thicker plate to it.One more stupid idea in the same realm. Because S10 and GM metric frames share so many steering parts, maybe you could widen an S10 frame and use the center steering link from a metric frame donor. GPster

[Danimal]

Well, we started messing around a bit today in between running to plow day, shearing a sheep, and whatever else we did...

It looks like the PO didn't check too much on the plate he put in because it won't turn left because the idler arm hits the bottom of the plate. We marked that as well as the area where the steering box hits on the other side. I'm going to go ahead and work with what I have for the time being while I do some more research on the 88-98 (GMT400)  frame. Looks like it isn't much better on width than the "Rounded Design" of the 73-87 as Steve has posted on the 67-72chevytrucks.com site. Even the guy who has the most info on this swap went back to something else!

I do know where there are 2 stock AD 1 ton frames local to me. I've got a 1/2 ton front suspension, axle, etc. I could swap. I would much rather have IFS, though.

Thanks for the support.

[Danimal]

And GPster, Court's truck is running the S10 frame with the 2" spacers. I'm NOT doing that with 137.5" wheelbase!!

[OldSub]

And GPster, Court's truck is running the S10 frame with the 2" spacers. I'm NOT doing that with 137.5" wheelbase!!

My longer-term project plans include putting a 1/2-ton on a S-10 4x4 frame.  I've got most the pieces but not the energy...

I've learned the wheel base of the '72 1-ton I swapped for is 133 inches.  Just a little short for what you;re doing and probably a little wide like what you have now.

If there are a couple of 1-ton frames close by for cheap I would vote for scrapping what you have and starting over.  If you want to stay with the same design IFS they just aren't that hard to find.

Is this truck ever going to haul a load?

[Danimal]

Is this truck ever going to haul a load?

I doubt a huge load. Its more towards hot rod and parts hauler. I already know I can put an engine in the back of these without any issue so there is always that opportunity.

For now, I'm going to see what I can do with what I've got. If I can land one of the other 2 1 ton frames, I will. Doesn't look like they get any more narrow after the ADs so I may think about a Dakota frame as well.

I sure wish I could find a build on that Doug's truck.

[OldSub]

I doubt a huge load. Its more towards hot rod and parts hauler. I already know I can put an engine in the back of these without any issue so there is always that opportunity.

Depending on the tire size and assuming a panel does not have duals, your GVWR on the '49 ranges from 5700 to 6700 pounds with a vehicle that empty weighs over 4400 pounds  That leaves 1300 to 2300 in load capacity.

If driver and passenger total only 350 pounds, on the lower end you're challenging the design capacity carrying an old V-8 with trans.  

The panel body is heavier than a pickup body with either a flat bed or a 9-foot bed.  I'd suggest you keep in mind how much room could be filled with stuff while making choices about brakes and other suspension components.  You sure don't want to find out it would not stop with your son and 12 of his closest friends riding inside!

I understand working with just what you've got, but in the past few weeks what ''I've got" changed in ways that improved my satisfaction with two projects and my only out-of-pocket will be fuel to tow them home.

Patience, or more accurately enforced inactively because of my cancer, has served me well.