non-automotive electrical switch

[Crosley.In.AZ]

I have attempted to locate a switch like in the photo,  not much luck yet.

It is switch in my driveway  rolling gate machine. this switch has about 12 spades out the back side,  switch position is 2 ,  left or right solid on each direction.

These are the only numbers on the switch,  nothing on other side.

Long story short,  the rolling gate was knocked on it's track, got jambed up.  The circuit breaker inside this machine tripped.  I reset everything and now the gate does not open with the remote.

Remote control box is receiving the signal, it clicks, sends electrical signal to gate   relays  , but does not open - close.  If I trip the internal power solenoids the gate operates to open or close as it should.

remote control box should not be a problem since it's job was over after the gate was opening  and stuff went off track yesterday.

I've tested the relays best to my pea brain ability.  Couple of the relays do energize as I activate the machine

[enjenjo]

this it?   http://gamainc.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi?item=4PDT-2

None of the info you have there identifies the switch. I assumed it was a toggle switch, and that it was a 4 pole double throw switch with no off position.

[wayne petty]

like this    4PDT, ON-ON TOGGLE SWITCH

edit
oh wait.. you have push on terminals.. not screw terminals...

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/STS-70/4PDT-ON-ON-TOGGLE-SWITCH//1.html
i called all.. they have 170 of them in stock..  but these are screw terminals.  wrong switch.. sorry

you can order it directly...   grainger will also have it..

i need to stop by this store.. but really had not planned on it for today..


http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=4PDT%2C+ON-ON+TOGGLE+SWITCH&op=search&Ntt=4PDT%2C+ON-ON+TOGGLE+SWITCH&N=0&sst=subset

look for the on - on switches


this should be the exact same switch with push on terminals..

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2TPD5?Pid=search

[Harry]

Are there any limit switches inside the control box? Are there cams that operate limit switches? Perhaps one of them is not making up.

[Bruce Dorsi]

Here's another source:

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6830080

[OldSub]

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6830080

I've had good luck with Allied.  I don't recall every ordering from any of the others.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Are there any limit switches inside the control box? Are there cams that operate limit switches? Perhaps one of them is not making up.

Limit switches are fine... I can trip the 120 volt solenoids and the gate operates as designed = rolls open - stops automatically . Trip the close power solenoid, gate rolls closed - stops  as designed

enjenjo , wayne, thanks for the effort, switches look correct.  sorry I provided p* poor description of switch at hand.

My work has Grainger account, will check there on friday or tuesday

I attempted to test which connection is connected with others after I got home.  With 12 spade - slip connectors on the switch it gets confusing quickly, I gave up in the 110*F  temp ..  even the dog walked away.  LOL

I have some Midtex brand relays on order from various places.  I found a Omron relay on ebay for 8 bucks, will try that next week.

[wayne petty]

testing the 4 pole double throw switch.. ON-ON


center terminal is connected to either side ...

so.. center to left...   or center to right..

they are all individual   circuit 1, 2, 3, 4... unless they are bridged in the wiring hooked to the switch..


use the continuity beep tester of your volt meter if you have taken it out of the circuit..

i have not worked on gate operators..

i wonder how they are wired...  we all might learn...

how about a brand and model number of the whole assembly..

here is a list of manuals for a few brands...

http://www.aaaremotes.com/gateequipmain.html


one of use might find the repair instructions. or wiring diagram..

there is usually a wiring diagram on the inside of the access door..  still there or faded??

[Crosley.In.AZ]

thanks wayne.

my volt-ohm meter has a beep setting.  I can not hear it, it is a frequency my ears do not pick up or mayb hook up an amp to it?  I need hearing aids, can not afford them.  Harbor freight had some low priced ear devices a while back

I figure a few bucks to see if I can fix this old gate opener machine is better than a new $ 1,000.00 to 1400.00 unit.  New units are not mechanical relay design, all printed  circuit board stuff internals now.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Here's another source:

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6830080

looks eggzackly like the switch in the box now...  I  have  learned some places have minimum order dollar amounts.. usually 35 - 40 dollars minimum.

[Harry]

Are there any limit switches inside the control box? Are there cams that operate limit switches? Perhaps one of them is not making up.

Limit switches are fine... I can trip the 120 volt solenoids and the gate operates as designed = rolls open - stops automatically . Trip the close power solenoid, gate rolls closed - stops  as designed


tripping the solenoids manually bypasses the limit switches. Yes?
As the gate opens it will hit the "gate open" limit switch, which will stop the gate from opening. On the backside of this "open limit" there will be a feed to the "gate close" solenoid. Is there power there?
I used to work on elevators and I think this gate operates something like an elevator door operator.
I don't think that toggle switch is the problem. But, I've been wrong before.
Good luck.

[Rrumbler]

My sense of what you've described is that this switch is not the problem.  In my memory, mind it has been over twenty years since I messed with much of that stuff, that switch is for enabling/disabling remote/local operation; in other words, one position allows the remote switching to operate; move the switch to the opposite position and it only allows operation from the control box on the machine; there should be a "center off" position on it, too.  It might have burned out internally when the circuit tripped, so you might be on the right track, though.  Is your remote operation from a wired remote location, like a card reader or code panel, or is it an IR/RF handheld one?  If it is the RF/IR type, is the receiver working, and sending an initiate current to the operating solenoid?  Sometimes those lightweight electronics can be zapped by an overload somewhere else in the system.  That's where my nose is leading me, so far.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Are there any limit switches inside the control box? Are there cams that operate limit switches? Perhaps one of them is not making up.

Limit switches are fine... I can trip the 120 volt solenoids and the gate operates as designed = rolls open - stops automatically . Trip the close power solenoid, gate rolls closed - stops  as designed

tripping the solenoids manually bypasses the limit switches. Yes?
As the gate opens it will hit the "gate open" limit switch, which will stop the gate from opening. On the backside of this "open limit" there will be a feed to the "gate close" solenoid. Is there power there?
I used to work on elevators and I think this gate operates something like an elevator door operator.
I don't think that toggle switch is the problem. But, I've been wrong before.
Good luck.

I have manually  tripped all limit switches (4) mid-stream as the gate travels.  they operate as required,  I think. If I trip the next switch inline  as the gate opens or closes , the gate stops.

I doubt the toggle switch is the problem too.  I beleive the problem is a relay or the delay circuit in one of the relays.

What makes no sense here is the gate will not operate in either direction via remote. The remote box has power, the remote box responds to fob button, there is a voltage spike at the opener terminals  as the remote is triggered.  yet nothing happens.

When the gate went off track, bound up and flipped the internal circuit breaker,  it was opening.  What ever burned out affects both directions.  I will investigate the limit switches further.

I have tried  randomly  bypassing various wire connections spot to spot just to get the * gate motor to start running, hickup , buzz,  smoke ... something.

One wierd item is the internal system is 24 volts... yet I get readings of 6 to 11 volts on some circuits.  I have no idea If I am testing correctly or if the lower voltage is proper.  I see this 6 - 11 volts on the solenoids for motor power.  When I trip the solenoids and the gate motor runs.. then there is 24 to 28 volts indicated ( same as other locations).  I ground my volt meter and start touching connections with the + cable tip

Only other  gate  problem I had was 4 yrs ago.. there is a timer inside as the gate motor runs. It shuts power off after 30 second run time per some instructions I read.. this box got confused and would shut the gate motor off after 5 - 9 seconds.  I unhooked this box 4 yrs ago and the gate has worked fine

as always thanks guys for the input

[Crosley.In.AZ]

My sense of what you've described is that this switch is not the problem.  In my memory, mind it has been over twenty years since I messed with much of that stuff, that switch is for enabling/disabling remote/local operation; in other words, one position allows the remote switching to operate; move the switch to the opposite position and it only allows operation from the control box on the machine; there should be a "center off" position on it, too.  It might have burned out internally when the circuit tripped, so you might be on the right track, though.  Is your remote operation from a wired remote location, like a card reader or code panel, or is it an IR/RF handheld one?  If it is the RF/IR type, is the receiver working, and sending an initiate current to the operating solenoid?  Sometimes those lightweight electronics can be zapped by an overload somewhere else in the system.  That's where my nose is leading me, so far.

It is indicated this 12 pole switch is for setting gate opening direction. If the remote button is pushed in mid stream of closing, the gate stops and reverses.

My remotes are the same ones for my garage openers.  Craftsman Sears brand garage door openers and remote buttons. Used for near 10 years, batterys replaced once or twice. I have 3 remotes programed to this gate.  each remote causes the conrtol box on the gate to flash the LED light and a voltage spike at the terminals of the gate.

I've checked terminals for corrosion , dirt, loose screws , burned wires.  Not found the illusive problem yet.

Need to fix it soon, manually pushing the solenoid inside each time is a major PITA, Cant leave the gate open, the dog wonders off.  She jumped into enjenjo's vehicle when he visited yrs back.

maybe its the dog's fault?

[Harry]

One more wild guess...Is there a safety edge on the gate? You know, something that would stop the gate if a car or person was in the way.
Something that moves when it hits an object? An electric eye?
If so, can you bypass it? Put a jumper on the safety circuit?