Full frame or front clip?????

freddrew · October 11, 2007, 11:48:09 AM

Like 48 BUILDER, I chose to go with the clip. It is great to go to a parts store, ask for stock parts and walk out with exactly what you need. Too many people that I have known and talked to have found the Mustang unit is not heavy enough for big cars, but perfect for lighter units. Most people I have talked to that recommend the clip got the "caster" right, by removing the front shocks before dissassembling the donor car and locking the suspension at ride height using threaded rod. They also used an Inclinometer on the sub frame to match the sub-frame angles before and after. This is my Winter project on a 1947 Chev Aerosedan using a 1981 Z28 Camero as the donor car. This car will be a trailer puller so I feel the heavier the components are in the suspension, the better.

Fred Drew

Leon · October 11, 2007, 01:20:59 PM

I have put several MII front ends from Fatman on cars with no problems. My 54 Chevy has their Stage 3 and I really like it. The only thing I might change is to go to manual steering instead of the power rack. I went with the power because of backing a trailer in a campground would be easier with it. I have over 10,000 miles on it in the last year. If I did another one, I'd use the same one. The stage 3 has shims like a GM frontend.

Charlie Chops 1940 · October 11, 2007, 02:49:01 PM

All good suggestions for both clips and MII kits. My vote is for MII for the cleaner end result on hat section frames (Chevy). As for the beefiness issue on MII's I would not use the sheet metal crossmember from an MII donor car though. I have done numerous installations of both as have others here.

I have a Heidts MII crossmember kit under my '40 Chevy convert. I used the bent tubular strut arms and also boxed my stock lower a-arms. I also used Pro-Shock coil overs which went about 17 years before they need rebuilding. I left the upper a-arms alone and used the stock t-bolts. Hasn't moved alignment over the past almost 20 years and 70K+ miles.

My car weighs in at about 3700 pounds, maybe a bit less. I guess I look at the MII kit as being derived from the Mustang, not necessarily keeping the light weight nature of it by improvement provided in the cross member kit.

On the other hand, the driving feel of a Nova, Chevelle, G-body sub euipped car is awfully hard to beat. At the end of the day it boils down to preferences and abilities.

Charlie

1FATGMC · October 11, 2007, 04:25:53 PM

Quote from: "Charlie Chops 1940"..............On the other hand, the driving feel of a Nova, Chevelle, G-body sub equipped car is awfully hard to beat. At the end of the day it boils down to preferences and abilities...Charlie

I'm not saying a clip is for everyone, but I love mine. It wasn't that hard to install. The time came in widening the front fenders 1 1/2 inches on each side for tire clearance.

I've driven in cars and driven cars with MII front-ends and none have been bad, but I haven't been in one yet that I think handles as good as mine in the turns or has a just good feel going down the road. I'd be interested in trading rides someday with someone who thinks they have a really great MII for a comparison. I tend to like to drive a little faster than some, so this is probably not a big deal with most people.

One thing I did though is run Camaro springs in the back and set them up with the same geometry as in the Camaro. I also shortened the wheelbase to the same as the Camaro, so basically the truck thinks it is a Camaro.

c ya,

Sum

chevy 47 coupe · October 12, 2007, 10:23:50 PM

thanks for all this information,which is helpful.i saw a Heidts superide 2 kit $2,599 (street rod headquaters) which i think is a little steep!!dont know if its weld on or bolt on?it seems to have all the componets that are needed. any one here used this setup? remember this car will be driven alot and i need it reliable and easy to get parts also.im still not sure which way to go,nova clip form donor car (which i can also use the motor,trans,rear,poss interior,steering column etc.)Ive restored some cars in the past but never started a rod project like this so bear with what seems like the same ???over and over.just trying to find the best way without over spending on a driver on a limited budget

Charlie Chops 1940 · October 12, 2007, 11:18:13 PM

The Super Ride is a weld in with all proprietary Heidts parts...which means replacements are sorta kept a secret. With a MII kit you are using MII a-arms, shock, spings or someones coilovers and an MII rack and pinion, so replacements aren't a complete mystery. You should be able to do a MII kit and p[arts, and big brakes in the $1500 area - all new parts.

However, I have installed a couple Super Rides and found them to be very good front ends. Recently though, I have heard of some issues with their rack and pinion which is a lFaming River unit. I don't know if the issues are resolved or not.

Charlie

1FATGMC · October 12, 2007, 11:23:05 PM

Quote from: "chevy 47 coupe"................im still not sure which way to go,nova clip form donor car (which i can also use the motor,trans,rear,poss interior,steering column etc.)............

That is the way I went with a Camaro donor I got for $700 and was on the road for less than $5000. Of course that was before paint, upholstery, and later a rebuilt motor. I completly rebuilt the front with J.C. Whitney parts except for the bushing kit that I got from someone else.

Just make sure the width is not going to be an issue, probably not with the nova, but then be sure and factor in a disc brake conversion. You want disks,

Sum

chevy 47 coupe · October 12, 2007, 11:37:16 PM

MII KITS who sells these? any pointers on doing the clip?how you did it would be great. pm me with info thanx. more ideas and comments are needed

I might go either way more research and info needed. im glad you guys can help me otherwise id proably still be scratching my head :?

Charlie Chops 1940 · October 12, 2007, 11:57:00 PM

Quote from: "chevy 47 coupe"MII KITS who sells these? any pointers on doing the clip?how you did it would be great. pm me with info thanx. more ideas and comments are needed I might go either way more research and info needed. im glad you guys can help me otherwise id proably still be scratching my head :?

Look at chassisengineeringinc.com, scroll down to their 41-48 Chevy Pinto kit. I think this is one of the simplest ways to go as it utilizes original suspension mounting holes.

Google Mustang II suspension kits. There are gobs of makers.

Charlie

enjenjo · October 13, 2007, 12:20:46 AM

If you decide to do a clip, and have the skill, look at a 67 to 69 Camaro or Firebird, or 68 to 74 Nova and clones(X body). These are rear steer, and dont have the issues with the drille, radiator, and steering interfering with each other. There are new problems, but they are easier to solve.

Here is an article on clipping a frame I did some years ago http://enjenjo.com/frameclip.html
It's a chevy truck, but most of the steps are the same.

wayne petty · October 13, 2007, 01:00:04 AM

just a thought about later model camaro subframes as donars.. 76 through 79 sevilles use an almost identical sub frame except for the frame horns wich were set up for big bumper shocks. and they are much more common in the junk yards out here in socal....

chevy 47 coupe · October 13, 2007, 09:45:56 PM

Well ive decided to go with the mustangII IFS kit. ive found a kit from speedway motors.mustangII tubular control arm ifs .for $1379 within my budget. it has different options which i need some opinions and guideance.
1.shocks or coilovers?
2.bolt pattern 5x4-1/2" or 5x4-3/4" ?
3.standard or 2"dropped spindles(id like the car to have a low rake)?
another thing they ask is what spring weight i need and i dont know.it has to do with what motor i use correct? if i use a 350 for example.they have for coil overs-700lb-600lb-500lb+350lbs. for spring with shock 500lb-425lb+350lbs. i dont know very new to me :?
you can also get the kit with 1" narrower tubular control arms???

enjenjo · October 13, 2007, 10:43:42 PM

1.shocks or coilovers?

You can do it either way. Springs and shocks are somewhat cheaper, but both work good. On my own cars, I run shock and springs.

2.bolt pattern 5x4-1/2" or 5x4-3/4" ?

It depends on what you are using for a rear end. Match the bolt pattern of the rear you are using.

3.standard or 2"dropped spindles(id like the car to have a low rake)?

On a 48, you will be plenty low without dropped spindles. The stockers will work fine.

springs

On my 47, I used 500 lb springs, they worked good.

chevy 47 coupe · October 13, 2007, 11:39:16 PM

thanx enjenjo for the info. when i weld this kit is it has to be in the same spot as the oringinal center to center 116" also do i need to remove the steering box or can i adapt it to this kit.or do i have to get a new steering box? I would like to use the oringial column and steering wheel if i can.if thats to difficult ill use one from the donor car i get

enjenjo · October 14, 2007, 12:44:02 AM

The new suspension will have rack and pinion steering, which replaces the original box. You can use the original column, but you have to fabricate a bushing at the bottom to support the shaft, also a mount where it goes through the floor. You would then connect it to the rack with a couple U joints, and an intermediate shaft.

When you get the kit, there will be instructions on locating the crossmember on the original centerline. I usually cheat it ahead a bit, because it looks better on a lowered car. Usually 1/2" to 3/4".

The radiator support is part of the front crossmember, you new kit may, or may not have one. Measure the location of the original, so you know where to put the new one.