Full frame or front clip?????

chevy 47 coupe · October 09, 2007, 09:55:42 PM

H i all.I have a 47 chevy stylemaster cp.and i was thinking of doing a frame swap with a g-body chassis(monte carlo,olds cutlass etc).I was told not a good swap by some members .he gave me some ideas as how to go about useing that frame.might be too much of a hassel?? is there another vechicles frame besides the toyota truck frame.or would it be easier to use a nova,camaro subframe and weld to existing 47 frame.i would like to use as many existing parts from the donor vechicle as posible(engine,sterring, rear, poss electric).if i use the subframe any help as to go about doing this would help a lot.as where to cut frame.measurements etc thanx

Charlie Chops 1940 · October 09, 2007, 10:32:35 PM

A quality MII front suspension kit is probably the easiest. There are some bolt on units available...Chassis Engineering if I remember correctly. A sub will work but it's a lot more work if you've never done one before...and the hat style frame on the Chevy isn't as easy to attach a sub to. Can be done but takes a bit of experience.

Charlie

Fat Cat · October 09, 2007, 10:43:16 PM

Quote from: "chevy 47 coupe"H i all.I have a 47 chevy stylemaster cp.and i was thinking of doing a frame swap with a g-body chassis(monte carlo,olds cutlass etc).I was told not a good swap by some members .he gave me some ideas as how to go about useing that frame.might be too much of a hassel?? is there another vechicles frame besides the toyota truck frame.or would it be easier to use a nova,camaro subframe and weld to existing 47 frame.i would like to use as many existing parts from the donor vechicle as posible(engine,sterring, rear, poss electric).if i use the subframe any help as to go about doing this would help a lot.as where to cut frame.measurements etc thanx

You could not pay me to install another G-Body clip into a 46-48 Chevy. They are not the easiest of swaps. As Charlie Says the easoest solution would be a Mustang II based suspension. That is what I am installing in my own 48 Sedan.

chevy 47 coupe · October 09, 2007, 11:03:13 PM

I was staying away from the bolt o weld on kits that are avalible(price) if i did go that way what else would be needed (sterring col.etc??) or if i went with the sub frame what would be the way to start this?matting subframe to 47 frame,im up to the challenge

enjo suggested a extended cab toyota pickup which he said was almost a perfect fit but the frame has to be stretched 4" then id have to mount a 350 to that and need a rear also. my mind is going in so many places so thats why all the

?? your input is so helpfull thanx

Bib_Overalls · October 09, 2007, 11:20:16 PM

Since $$$$ are important here are a couple of $$$$ issues to think about.

A GM clip will be old and almost certainly road weary. Plan on (budget) for rebuilding or replacing every wear component; bushings, ball joints, shocks, brakes, etc.

In the end, I think you will find that upgrading to a Mustang II front suspension will not cost much more than doing a clip.

And in today's market a clip will detract from sale value while a well executed Mustang II suspension will add to value. No matter what you do to your car; paint, interior, drive train, it will always be a clipped ride.

chevy 47 coupe · October 09, 2007, 11:28:37 PM

ok so if i go the mustang suspention ,which is the better way to go bolt on or weld on i have seen both.after that suspention is in what is the next thing that has to be done ,bought etc? and another ? i need to get a rear also what do you suggest-mustang camaro or nova rear or?

Bib_Overalls · October 10, 2007, 12:03:11 AM

Functionally, there is no difference between a bolt on and a weld on crossmember. If you are a competent fabricator and welder you can save a couple of hundred bucks using a weld in over a bolt in crossmember. So the decision is based on your skill level.

And, if you are a very capable welder and fabricator you can save another couple of hundred bucks using a kit from these guys: http://www.welderseries.com/

Most of the bone yard around here have been picked clean of Mustang II and Pinto/Bobcat front suspension parts. But if you are lucky you may be able to score a complete front end with rebuildable arms and spindles and a core R&P. You can save some big bucks going this way. But I do recommend upgrading the brakes. The stock ones are not suitable for the vehicles they came on, much less a full sized sedan.

dragrcr50 · October 10, 2007, 12:14:47 AM

it has all been covered but do yourself a favor and do the mustang two and you will be happy with it bottom line. it is worth more drives great and everything fits back on it way better. get your self a speedway catalog and or go on line and check out out alol of the mustang two stuff they have as it is pretty easy to know what to buy and it is very reasonably priced there.... good luck

Bob Paulin · October 10, 2007, 08:59:48 AM

I would avoid the clip route. Too much engineering for most people to get it done right - and looking right.

Having said that, I would prefer using an S-10/15 chassis/clip over the G-body chassis/clip.

While the front-end components are interchangeable, the S-10/15 front crossmember is mounted differently - which gives the truck a slightly (one-inch) higher roll center.

This higher roll center works well with the earlier cars that had such high Center of Gravity - especially when compared to the G-body.

The other thing is that the G-body is a perimeter frame - which often makes it too wide resulting in the need to fabricate straight rails....and it comes in one flavor - 108"....meaning it will, most likely, need to be stretched.

The S-10/15 is a ladder-style chassis which comes in wheelbases running from 100" to 123", and is quite easy to shorten at the factory weld where the front clip attaches. There is a 117" version that fits MANY late '40s and early '50s cars.

B.P.

sirstude · October 10, 2007, 09:47:51 AM

If you are really comfortable with your fabricating skills, and want to save the maximum amout of $$$ check out the H.A.M.B. archives for the plans for a MII crossmember. Remember, this is coming from a guy that used the G body crossmember in my Olds. However, I only used the crossmember and built my own frame rails. Biggest issues with the G bodies and S10/15 is the big steering box out on the front. It will just hide behind the grill on my Olds.

Doug

48builder · October 10, 2007, 12:18:26 PM

Quote from: "chevy 47 coupe"H i all.I have a 47 chevy stylemaster cp.and i was thinking of doing a frame swap with a g-body chassis(monte carlo,olds cutlass etc).

I have a post-war Chevy sedan that I put a G-body clip in. As the guys here can tell you, I have had plenty of trouble doing it. Mainly due to my screwing it up. Would I do it again? Too early to tell. I have not driven it yet.

I made my clip decision based on many factors, cost being one of them. I put a Fatman MII kit in m y '39 and I am not at all happy with it. I don't like the way it handles, and I don't like the brake kit (ECI) that I used. It is a big mis-mash of parts. I am building this car with a goal of my wife being able to drive it anywhere, and get it fixed if it breaks down. If something happens on the front, all she has to tell the garage is that the front is '87 Grand Prix. Not "I think the rotors are Granada, the calipers are Camaro, the bearings are MII..."

I also talked to MANY guys at shows. I did not talk to anybody with a clip on their car who regretted it. I talked to a couple who took off their MII and went to a clip.

A clip is much more work. If you are a good fabricator and have lots of time, that is a plus for the clip. You will have to modify all of the inner fenders, the bumper mounts, etc.

I got my clip for free, and it was in nice shape. I am going to replace all of the bushings, etc,. just because I want everything new.

I wish I knew that the S10 would work better when I did mine. I would have went with that. I have seen swaps that used the entire frame, and if your floorboards are gone I would say give that a go. My car was solid so I just did the clip.

If you need more info or have more questions please feel free to PM. I have plenty of pics and made enough mistakes so maybe I can help in some way.

Walt

GPster · October 10, 2007, 01:11:21 PM

I'm in the process of putting an S10 (S15) frame under a '48 Willys Jeepster and there are some problems you might have to deal with. The rear axel is only 53" axel end to axel end which is a bit narrow for my use and I imagine it would be way to narrow for your Chevy. The fix that some people are using is an S10 4X4 rear end that is 58" and bolts right in. This would take care of the rear but you will also be dealin with the 53" on the front. Some people are using 2 1/2" wheel spacers on the hubs which will run you $50.00 or so. If you think a 4X4 frame would be better that is not the case because from the side view they are flatter/higher and not very conducive to body changes because of that. The '78 to '87 Metric frames have an even wider (63"?) tread width and you might end up running neg. off-set wheels to get the tires in the fenders. Another thing is the engine will probably sit in the wrong place on the stock mounts with a new body around it. If you can deal with those 2 items add to that list that the S10 is a pick up or SUV frame and the rise in the frame for rear axel clearance and the gas tank starts behind the front seat. All of this can be engineered around but if you want to drive this thing soon then I would use someone elses engineering and Mustang II it. Now, I haven't talked myself out of doing mine that way BUT!. Fat Cat plans on driving his by April and he's only had it a month. It has been my experience that SE Ohio climate is not easy on frames. My Jeepster had (has) a "Top Hat frame and I had a '53 Chevy that did to. People talk about road salt but the reality is with the high humidity and dirt/mud the frame actually rust from the inside/out. Pa. is not that far from here, if you still have a frame I'd use it. That way your body would already be mounted, so would your radiator. inner fender panels, bumpers and gas tank. We're just trying to help you make an informed decission. GPster

sirstude · October 11, 2007, 09:48:58 AM

The metric frames are 58" wide, mounting face to mounting face on the discs. In my case, I think I am going to have to space the front wheels out a bit (3/4" or so each side).

Doug

Welder Series · October 11, 2007, 10:07:49 AM

Hi guys

I just wanted to say thanks for the link. This looks like a great forum - I'm enjoying going through the tech articles!

DW Horton
Welder Series Inc.

48builder · October 11, 2007, 10:17:12 AM

Quote from: "sirstude"The metric frames are 58" wide, mounting face to mounting face on the discs. In my case, I think I am going to have to space the front wheels out a bit (3/4" or so each side).

Doug

For my rear, I am using the Z28 Posi rear from my donor. It was too wide, so I took the axles to the salvage yard and did some caparison. As it turned out, S10 Axles (can't remember if it was 2 or 4-wheel drive) are the same size except they are a little shorter. I had the housing narrowed and with the S10 Axles I ended up with a 59" width. I may need to use a ½" spacer, but I am going to trim the side of the frame at the wheel opening and see if I can get by.

You could cut all the coil spring stuff off and use leafs, but I like a coil spring ride, so I fabricated brackets for the trailing arms and panhard bar and upper spring and shock mounts. I hope it works!

Walt