Whats up with Ford MoCo?

[Carnut]

From the news it appears they are having a bit of difficulty.

Heh, heh, I'll have to admit Ford hasn't built anything I would have wanted to buy new since the 60's, but if I was currently in the position to buy anything new it would be a Ford Mustang.

Being a former Boeing guy I'm somewhat familiar with Mulallys rep there, and most folks I talked to always thought he was better than most of the managers there when I left.

Unfortunately I think an Auto company really should have a 'Car Guy' in charge with accountants and engineers helping him out.

Mulally is an engineer, guess we'll see how he does.

[enjenjo]

Ford got lost on how to build cars, by pursuing profits building trucks and SUVs, rather than updating the car technology. Like Gm and Ford have both been doing for 40 years now, if you can make a profit today, keep building it until you are forced to change. It's reaction rather than action. They are speculating a fall from second in sales to 4th. I think 5th is more realistic.

[Carnut]

Actually the news that Ford was having problems was a surprise to me.

I thought I saw enough new Ford Trucks, SUV's and Mustangs around to keep that place going strong, guess I was wrong.

I know percieved quality is what gets folks to come back and buy, guess I'm old fashioned, but I always thought styling and 'value' were what brought the customers in and sold the cars.

I always thought that GM and Ford had bigtime problems because of atrocious styling for many years. I always thought the Taurus was the uglies thing on earth, but always heard the PR that it was out selling anything around. Never could resolve that one in my head.

Guess it gets down to either building something that sells itself so well that you make your money in volume, like a little profit on each (econoboxs/sedans) or make something that you don't sell much of but make a big profit on each (truck/SUVS).

Apparently Ford has been selling a lot with no profit and trying to make up
for it in volume.

[Flipper]

The big three's dealers don't help the good value part any.  The manufacturers cut costs and give incentives....the dealers pocket the incentives and try and sell for MSRP.

If the manufacturers could force the dealers to sell cars at modest mark-ups they'd be selling cars.

The average car salesman doesn't really know what in the hell they are selling anyways.....whatever is on the lot....why should they get a big commissions?  Pay them $10 an hr to run the cash register.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

I find that GM is behind the others in development....Ford had a 4 door 1/2 ton truck 2-3 yrs before GM did. We really liked the 2001 F-150 Super crew  truck we had

On the flip side GM motors seem to perform better on MPG and emissions. GM engines have more power without forced induction.

I am not a fan of Dodge trucks or SUV stuff.... except for the Cummins powered trucks.

[Normspeed]

For me, Ford lost track of supporting the stuff they built in the past. Why sell a truck capable of working for 30-40 years if even Ford can't find correct electronics for it after less than 20 years?

Anyone remember what the pickup truck was in the Real McCoys?

[phat46]

Ford lost 12.7 BILLION (!) last year! It was reported that over 10 billion of that was for the buyouts they did, and actual operating losses were "only" about 2.4 billion. Like they said on the news, Ford can't do this again. I was surprised to hear the lose was this big, as i think Ford makes perfectly good transportation appliances, and that's what the vast majority of car buyers are looking for. As car guys we see most of what Ford makes as boring, but I think most people are looking for something reliable to get back and forth to work. Fords products aren't really much different from the other guys, including the imports, sometimes it looks as though the same guys designed all the cars....

[Carnut]

For me, Ford lost track of supporting the stuff they built in the past. Why sell a truck capable of working for 30-40 years if even Ford can't find correct electronics for it after less than 20 years?

Anyone remember what the pickup truck was in the Real McCoys?

Hummmm, don't remember any particular pickup on the Real McCoys, may have some faint memories of a Model A but think it may be wishful thinking.

Now the Beverly Hillbillies had an Oldsmobile setup as a truck.

[enjenjo]

For me, Ford lost track of supporting the stuff they built in the past. Why sell a truck capable of working for 30-40 years if even Ford can't find correct electronics for it after less than 20 years?

Anyone remember what the pickup truck was in the Real McCoys?

It isn't only Ford. My AMC has a bad temp sender for the puter, and no one makes a replacement. I can't even find a good used one.

[35WINDOW]

Isn't Ford's Retirement Plan part of the blame for this? I mean, their Sales were up,they were o.k., then,   Sales dropped, they had a attrition plan, and they are kinda left holding the bag?

I'm not blaming the Retiree's, just Economics. I just don't think Fords Income is enough to offset the outgo.

As far as Dealers getting MSRP for Cars, I haven't seen it. I work for a Company that has two GM Dealerships and a Jeep Dealership-average Margin, 2-3%-

[enjenjo]

Isn't Ford's Retirement Plan part of the blame for this? I mean, their Sales were up,they were o.k., then,   Sales dropped, they had a attrition plan, and they are kinda left holding the bag?

I'm not blaming the Retiree's, just Economics. I just don't think Fords Income is enough to offset the outgo.

As far as Dealers getting MSRP for Cars, I haven't seen it. I work for a Company that has two GM Dealerships and a Jeep Dealership-average Margin, 2-3%-

It is still Ford's/ GM's/ Chrysler's fault. Back when they set up the retirement plans, they wanted to keep control of the money.So instead of a multi employer plan, they set up individual plans for each plant. When they closed a plant, they had to take all the retirement liability. There is not as much liability with a multi employer plan. Same with health care.

Plus both health and retirement plans were too generous to  be maintained in the manner they were funded, without forcing the companies out of business.

Sub pay was another mistake. It just forces the profits down at all plants.

It was another case of capitulating in the short term, at the risk of long term survival. This is not a new problem, it has been building for 50 years.

If you look back this was the same thing that Forced Studebaker, Packard, and eventually AMC out of business. And yes I know Chrysler bought AMC, but all they wanted was the Jeep. AMC could not afford to build all the Jeeps they could sell at buyout time.

[Carnut]

So now Ford is loosing a ton of money in order to pay off the expensive help so they can start making money in the future with cheap, low benefit help?

Kind of a Wal Mart approach to getting things done?

I remember toward the end of my time at Boeing after they got bought out by McDonnel Douglas (inside joke),  that Management kept going on about continous quality improvement because it was felt that the major buyers of Big airplanes were really concerned about quality.

Then AirBus started kicking butt and it became obvious that a cheaper, lower operating cost aircraft was what the buyers really wanted.

Boeing had been selling on reputation for quite awhile and then decided to get 'the help' to work harder to save the company, when it became obvious that Boeing needed to build more economically competitive aircraft, both in purchase price and operation costs as well as better capabilities, the 'buyouts' and layoffs began, even to the sell off of various mfg facilities to other vendors.

Apparently Boeing just wanted to be in the business of 'assembler' of aircraft rather than mfgr of aircraft. Now it appears that Boeing was doing the same thing to do away with high cost labor and benefits by spinning off the mfg facilities.

Humm, wonder if that means Boeing is gonna be doing a Ford/GM/AMC thing in the future.

Sure hope my retirement benefits last as long as I do.

[Flipper]

The car companies want to just be assemblers also.  They have suppliers do most of the work building "modules" that the car companies can slap together. Instead of paying UAW wages for cars to be built....a lot of the car building is done by people making 10-15 bucks an hour.

They even push a lot of the design work for components downstream.  ....and make the suppliers design responsible.  They tell the supplier what they want something to do and how big of a space it needs to fit into.

[48ford]

I worked for Uncle Henry for 32 years in maintance.
I was with them in the good time and the bad times.
This is the first time I wonder if they can pull another rabbit out of the hat.
The blam is on everyone,not just the UAW workers,everyone.but don't get me started.
To get an idea of where they are at go here blueovalnews.com it's ugly and getting worse.
A for the compaanys just wanting to assemble,Loiok at the new jeep in toledo,they are surrounded by other plants (with in the complex) that make parts for them and pay  around half of what the guy putting it together in the next building is payed(I see trouble on the horizon)
Later Russ

[Glen]

I have a document to post, but I need to verify that I can share the information before I do.  I posted the info, but quickly deleted it until I can do that.