Buffing out new paint job

[speedracer]

OK, here's one for the books.
I just had the car painted and was told by the guys that painted it, that if I waited about a month then used a super fine wet sand paper on it
and buffed it out with it, that would make it shine allot better!  I never heard of sanding new paint!  Sounds like I'd ruin the paint job!
Has anyone heard of doing this?  Or is there another way to improve the shine?  The color is a pearl/metalic blue with a sort of metalic gun metal gray on top.
Any takers on this one!!  Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, Thanks, johnny :?

[Leon]

Usually on a basecoat/clearcoat finish it is normal to wet sand and buff the clear to eliminate orangepeel. The newer clears are catalyzed so they "dry" fairly quick and can be sanded.  On a single stage paint with metalics it is risky because you can sand down into the flakes and expose them causing a spot of different look than where they are covered.   To sand a paint job I use a 1000 grit and work up to 2000 then follow up with compounds from Meguires or 3M.

[Dave]

OK, here's one for the books.
I just had the car painted and was told by the guys that painted it, that if I waited about a month then used a super fine wet sand paper on it
and buffed it out with it, that would make it shine allot better!  I never heard of sanding new paint!  Sounds like I'd ruin the paint job!
Has anyone heard of doing this?  Or is there another way to improve the shine?  The color is a pearl/metalic blue with a sort of metalic gun metal gray on top.
Any takers on this one!!  Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, Thanks, johnny :?

If its done with base clear you should be able to sand and buff the next day if it done with single stage i wouldnt sand it.
Dave

[purplepickup]

Johnny, it sounds like you probably don't have any experience doing this so if I were you I'd get comfortable doing color sanding and buffing on something besides your freshly painted pride and joy.  Maybe you have an old car that you could practice on to freshen up the shine, or maybe your painter will let you hang out at his shop and let you do some wet sanding for him to get experience.  I know most painters would love for someone to help with sanding.  He can probably give you some buffing tips too.  It's not magic but it does help to have some experience if you're going to tackle something that you want to turn out nice.

When color sanding and buffing you have to pay a lot of attention to what you are doing so that you don't sand or buff too much but still get that nice shine.  You have to know when to use different grit paper and use sanding methods that don't sand through the paint on ridges and edges....or anywhere for that matter.   With experience you'll learn to develop "the touch".  You don't have to push real hard when sanding.  Use lots of fresh high quality sandpaper and let the paper do the sanding. It's the same with buffing.  Learn to use the right grit compounds at the right times and learn "the touch" so that you don't buff through the paint in places.  Buffers can cut thru paint pretty quick sometimes.

You're doing the first thing right by asking for advise.  I'm sure you'll get some here.  Do some searches on Google for things like "color sanding" and check out some of the sites.  Many of them walk you thru the process in a way that a beginner can understand.  If you don't understand some of the terms or whatever, don't be afraid to ask.  

Here's a site I found with just a quick search http://66.34.72.138/howto/colorsand/index.html .  There's lots more.

Have fun and good luck.

[1FATGMC]

If you decide to sand and buff and/or just buff be sure and study up on what you are doing.  If it is a base/clear paint job and you sand and/or buff through the clear you will have to spray more color on that panel and re-clear the whole panel and with the multiple colors you are talking about you might have to repaint the whole panel.

You should also check with them on how many coats of clear are on the car and make sure it is thick enough to do this.  I know they said it could be done, but there is a difference how much clear someone might take off to get it flat depending on if this is the first time they attempted it vs. someone who is well trained.

Basically you start with a coarser sand paper (like was mentioned -- 1000) and use lots of water and sand with a hard block.  As soon as you sand and dry an area you will see lots of little pits.  Those are the bottoms of the orange peel.  You sand with the water (a touch of soap), change the paper often and dry the area often.  Then you stop at the moment all the pits are gone.  Tape and don't sand near the edges or body lines while doing the sanding and buffing if you are not experienced.

After the panel is flat (no pits) it will be dull and you will think you have ruined it.

Next go to a finer paper and sand again.  Now you are just sanding out the courser sand paper scratches and replacing them with finer ones.

The finer the sand paper you use the less buffing you will do as the buffing has to remove the last sand paper scratches.  You need a good (read fairly expensive) buffer that will work at a low speed (variable is best).  So you finish up with finer grit buffing compounds and finally a polish compound.

This all sounds like a lot of work and it is and will take time and like I said if you go through the clear coat on any of this you have a mess that car only be fixed by re-painting, yet thousands of people have done this and ended up with a great looking paint job.

I started on this post an hour ago, but had people in the store.  Now I noticed George has answered, but I'm going to enter this anyway since I spent all this time typing .

c ya, Sum

[parklane]

Johnny.............some painters are now color sanding with a da sander. You can now get 1500 and 2000 sanding discs for the da, and sure saves  the arms, hands, and fingers. My painter here in town can now color sand and buff a complete car in a few hours instead of days.

John

[sirstude]

One of the things we discovered when I was sanding the Impala is the California Car Cover's water blade.  Just wipe off the water when you are sanding, rinse it first, and you can see if you have sanded enough right away.  You don't have to wait for things to dry off.  Sure speeds up the process.  

I spend a good many years polishing/buffing cars, but it was a long time ago.  We used wool bonnets then and when I did the Impala I used the new foam pads.  What an improvement!!  I guess, other than me, most everything improves as time go on.

Doug

[speedracer]

Johnny, it sounds like you probably don't have any experience doing this so if I were you I'd get comfortable doing color sanding and buffing on something besides your freshly painted pride and joy.  Maybe you have an old car that you could practice on to freshen up the shine, or maybe your painter will let you hang out at his shop and let you do some wet sanding for him to get experience.  I know most painters would love for someone to help with sanding.  He can probably give you some buffing tips too.  It's not magic but it does help to have some experience if you're going to tackle something that you want to turn out nice.

When color sanding and buffing you have to pay a lot of attention to what you are doing so that you don't sand or buff too much but still get that nice shine.  You have to know when to use different grit paper and use sanding methods that don't sand through the paint on ridges and edges....or anywhere for that matter.   With experience you'll learn to develop "the touch".  You don't have to push real hard when sanding.  Use lots of fresh high quality sandpaper and let the paper do the sanding. It's the same with buffing.  Learn to use the right grit compounds at the right times and learn "the touch" so that you don't buff through the paint in places.  Buffers can cut thru paint pretty quick sometimes.

You're doing the first thing right by asking for advise.  I'm sure you'll get some here.  Do some searches on Google for things like "color sanding" and check out some of the sites.  Many of them walk you thru the process in a way that a beginner can understand.  If you don't understand some of the terms or whatever, don't be afraid to ask.  

Here's a site I found with just a quick search http://66.34.72.138/howto/colorsand/index.html .  There's lots more.

Have fun and good luck.

Hey thanks George for all the info.  Ya know I can always depend on yall to help out.  And I get a chance now and then to share my mistakes and victories.
Yea ya know it definitly sounds scary.  New paint plus sand paper = disaster!  But this is one time I'm not going to hurry the job and if I don't feel comfortable after I prepare to do it, then I'll take it to someone.  In fact theres a auto hobby shop on base (Patrick AFB) that has a paint booth and instructors there!  *, why did'nt I think of that before I even posted the question.  Guess I'm so used to asking yall and getting fast results before I think of a different avenue.  Any way thanks for all the valuable info---------------johnny

[speedracer]

If you decide to sand and buff and/or just buff be sure and study up on what you are doing.  If it is a base/clear paint job and you sand and/or buff through the clear you will have to spray more color on that panel and re-clear the whole panel and with the multiple colors you are talking about you might have to repaint the whole panel.

You should also check with them on how many coats of clear are on the car and make sure it is thick enough to do this.  I know they said it could be done, but there is a difference how much clear someone might take off to get it flat depending on if this is the first time they attempted it vs. someone who is well trained.

Basically you start with a coarser sand paper (like was mentioned -- 1000) and use lots of water and sand with a hard block.  As soon as you sand and dry an area you will see lots of little pits.  Those are the bottoms of the orange peel.  You sand with the water (a touch of soap), change the paper often and dry the area often.  Then you stop at the moment all the pits are gone.  Tape and don't sand near the edges or body lines while doing the sanding and buffing if you are not experienced.

After the panel is flat (no pits) it will be dull and you will think you have ruined it.

Next go to a finer paper and sand again.  Now you are just sanding out the courser sand paper scratches and replacing them with finer ones.

The finer the sand paper you use the less buffing you will do as the buffing has to remove the last sand paper scratches.  You need a good (read fairly expensive) buffer that will work at a low speed (variable is best).  So you finish up with finer grit buffing compounds and finally a polish compound.

This all sounds like a lot of work and it is and will take time and like I said if you go through the clear coat on any of this you have a mess that car only be fixed by re-painting, yet thousands of people have done this and ended up with a great looking paint job.

I started on this post an hour ago, but had people in the store.  Now I noticed George has answered, but I'm going to enter this anyway since I spent all this time typing .

c ya, Sum

Thanks Sum for all the great info and advlce.  Wow, this site is like being in school again, with allot of COOL instructors!  Ya know this site is the only site I've found that I get the feeling that people really care about there fellow Rodders.
So after all that I realized that I have access to a auto hobby shop with a paint booth and instructors there, like I told George I'll take my time on this one and hell if it don't get done no big deal, the car looks good now but like allot of us guys always wanting to make it better and faster.
Thanks again, johnny

[BFS57]

Hello;
I know about this kind of thing. First see if you can find out just how much (coats) clear your painter applied. Next, look the car over and see where there may be some rough spots (orange peal/over spray). Start with a block (rubber) and 1200 wet or dry (use a very clean bucket of cold water) and dip and sand the flat areas that are roughest first As you sand PAY ATTENTION to the area you are working and just sand enough to "flatten" the roughness. Just spot the car first with 1200!
After spotting the car, move on to all the flat areas next with 1500 wet or dry. Always pay attention to the sand paper! Make sure it doesn't clog up and rinse often and always make sure that the water is kept clean!  Change paper often!  You may use quite a bit of paper. Be careful not to sand any ridges, get close but not directly on them as you can sand through very quickly!
Your arms will resemble flubber about this time! Now, switch to 2000 and sand the places you didn't sand with the 1500 (ridges and such. Always pay attention and use a light up close to look across the area you are working on! When finished (the whole car) dry the car remove any white junk and inspect and touch up where you missed! By this time your arms are almost useless!
Time to buff! use a lambs wool wheel (new) with 3-m light compound (the name is Finesse IT) Comes in a bottle. Also, Make sure your buffer has a variable speed! Same as before buff the flat areas first taking care not to burn through. Now, By hand all the remaining areas. Always take care to use new cloths! If you Drop It, * Can It! Same goes for sand paper too! You don't want any particles of dirt scratching your glass finish. Yes, I said Glass! By now, You should have a mirror like glass finish everywhere on the car. Finish with two coates of Carnauba Wax and buff by hand!
You are finished! But the results will catch eyes wherever you go! I have used these methods for over 20 years and I have done cars, Model Airplanes, and Real Planes too. I have won awards for my finishes on Model Airplanes that are balsa and rice paper. Try that and don't sand through a wing panel!
But like someone suggested try to practice on a couple things first.
Good Luck and believe me, it's worth the effort!

Bruce

[1FATGMC]

Just to add one thing to Bruce's post.  You need to be running water over the area as you sand at all times.  There are hose attachments, but I just use a big sponge and keep dipping it and then squeezing it over the area I'm sanding with my left hand as I sand with my right.  Sand and then keep drying the area with paper towels and/or the squeegee mentioned in the other post.  You need to do this so you stop sanding as soon as you get the area flat (all the pits gone).

I have and have used the hook and loop sanding pads mentioned, but I'm still kind of a chicken with those and just use them to get close to flat.

c ya, Sum

[Pep]

I was contemplating buffing the 37...I am hesitating cause it already has a good shine, but has areas of peel...I have cut/buffed Acrylic before with 1200 and buffed with lambs wool pads and cutting compound but have never done 2k....Reading the responses it looks like there is not much difference except the use of finer paper and a sponge pad. I also used a chamois as I went to clean the area off for a good visual. I also used a drill speed controller to reduce the speed of the buff down even slower. Another thing I did was used a wool buff (dry) and sprinkled corn flower over the paint as the last buffing stage to get the swirl marks out. It worked great for Acrylic, not sure if 2k is the same. Anyone try this?

[Skip]

Base/clear paint jobs need to be sanded w/in 24 hours or the paint'll be too hard to buff.

If the orange peel is REALLY bad, go over the clear with a palm sander using 1000 grit (dry) paper then do it again with 1500.  If it's not too bad, you can start right off with the 1500.

When that's done, use 3000 grit Trizact (3M™ Trizact™ Hookit™ II Blending Disc) with an interface pad on your sander (foam pad that goes between the sander's rubber pad and the sandpaper).  Use a spray bottle and wet the disc until the water just starts to run off.  Keep wetting the disc periodically.  You'll know it's cutting because you'll see a foamy white residue as you sand.

When you're finished, the paint will have a very smooth, but, flat finish.

I use a 3/32" orbit sander for a better finish.  Most guys I know use the 3/16 orbit sander because it cuts a bit faster.

Get into the corners and the edges by hand with (wet) 1000 or 1200 grit, then 1500 followed by 2000.

Get out your buffer and have at it.

The initial dry sanding will knock the high spots off and the Trizact will remove the 1500 grit scratches and provide a uniform consistency of the paint surface prior to buffing.  

Don't forget to put the interface pad on your sander when you use the Trizact.  The interface pad, when used with a Trizact disc, will raise the effective grit number significantly.  i.e. sanding with 800 grit Trizact using an interface pad gives you the equivalent of a surface sanded with a  1000 grit disc.  Sanding with a 3000 grit Trizact disc on an interface pad will give you a MUCH smoother surface than you would get had you used the disc w/o the interface pad.

EVERY car that goes out of our shop gets sanded and buffed like this and we do a few a week (late model collision repair shop).

[speedracer]

Base/clear paint jobs need to be sanded w/in 24 hours or the paint'll be too hard to buff.

If the orange peel is REALLY bad, go over the clear with a palm sander using 1000 grit (dry) paper then do it again with 1500.  If it's not too bad, you can start right off with the 1500.

When that's done, use 3000 grit Trizact (3M™ Trizact™ Hookit™ II Blending Disc) with an interface pad on your sander (foam pad that goes between the sander's rubber pad and the sandpaper).  Use a spray bottle and wet the disc until the water just starts to run off.  Keep wetting the disc periodically.  You'll know it's cutting because you'll see a foamy white residue as you sand.

When you're finished, the paint will have a very smooth, but, flat finish.

I use a 3/32" orbit sander for a better finish.  Most guys I know use the 3/16 orbit sander because it cuts a bit faster.

Get into the corners and the edges by hand with (wet) 1000 or 1200 grit, then 1500 followed by 2000.

Get out your buffer and have at it.

The initial dry sanding will knock the high spots off and the Trizact will remove the 1500 grit scratches and provide a uniform consistency of the paint surface prior to buffing.  

Don't forget to put the interface pad on your sander when you use the Trizact.  The interface pad, when used with a Trizact disc, will raise the effective grit number significantly.  i.e. sanding with 800 grit Trizact using an interface pad gives you the equivalent of a surface sanded with a  1000 grit disc.  Sanding with a 3000 grit Trizact disc on an interface pad will give you a MUCH smoother surface than you would get had you used the disc w/o the interface pad.

EVERY car that goes out of our shop gets sanded and buffed like this and we do a few a week (late model collision repair shop).

Hey thanks Skip!
I've been under the weather for the last week, guess I got some kinda bug.  Anyway feelin better now, well got the sand paper and sponges with bucket, going over to home depot tomorrow to check out the sanders.
Yea know I've heard of guys sanding and buffing out their new paint job and tried to explain it to the wife (should have known better) but of course her reply was you just got it painted!  Why?
After close inspection of the paint there is quite a bit of pits and alittle peel but like I said before even the body man said the same thing as you guys did, so I'm going to take my time and do it right.  Hopefully I can start on it by the end of the week and thanks again for all your advice, I'll let yall know how it turns out and maybe if I can figure it out send a pic------------johnny

[speedracer]

Hello;
I know about this kind of thing. First see if you can find out just how much (coats) clear your painter applied. Next, look the car over and see where there may be some rough spots (orange peal/over spray). Start with a block (rubber) and 1200 wet or dry (use a very clean bucket of cold water) and dip and sand the flat areas that are roughest first As you sand PAY ATTENTION to the area you are working and just sand enough to "flatten" the roughness. Just spot the car first with 1200!
After spotting the car, move on to all the flat areas next with 1500 wet or dry. Always pay attention to the sand paper! Make sure it doesn't clog up and rinse often and always make sure that the water is kept clean!  Change paper often!  You may use quite a bit of paper. Be careful not to sand any ridges, get close but not directly on them as you can sand through very quickly!
Your arms will resemble flubber about this time! Now, switch to 2000 and sand the places you didn't sand with the 1500 (ridges and such. Always pay attention and use a light up close to look across the area you are working on! When finished (the whole car) dry the car remove any white junk and inspect and touch up where you missed! By this time your arms are almost useless!
Time to buff! use a lambs wool wheel (new) with 3-m light compound (the name is Finesse IT) Comes in a bottle. Also, Make sure your buffer has a variable speed! Same as before buff the flat areas first taking care not to burn through. Now, By hand all the remaining areas. Always take care to use new cloths! If you Drop It, #### Can It! Same goes for sand paper too! You don't want any particles of dirt scratching your glass finish. Yes, I said Glass! By now, You should have a mirror like glass finish everywhere on the car. Finish with two coates of Carnauba Wax and buff by hand!
You are finished! But the results will catch eyes wherever you go! I have used these methods for over 20 years and I have done cars, Model Airplanes, and Real Planes too. I have won awards for my finishes on Model Airplanes that are balsa and rice paper. Try that and don't sand through a wing panel!
But like someone suggested try to practice on a couple things first.
Good Luck and believe me, it's worth the effort!

Bruce

Sorry Bruce I took so long to reply to yall been lil sickly lately.  Like I told Skip I'm ready to start on it this week, just gotta pick up a sander at the local home depot, got the rest of the stuff.  Just gona take my time and do it right.  Sure don't want to paint it again!
Thanks for the information, I would have been totally lost without it.
Thanks again--------------johnny