Bleeding brakes

Started by GPster, May 09, 2006, 11:56:25 PM

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GPster

May 09, 2006, 11:56:25 PM
Does the old style of two people bleeding brakes overcome high places in the line? Will pressure bleeding? Sometimes this having no "depth persception" because of my eyes is a bummer. All these brake and brake switch questions are mostly coming now because I had finally got to weld brackets on the front frame rails for  stationary mounts for the rubber flex hoses. I couldn't see it from the side but looking at it from the front today it looked like the hard line/flex hose connection on the frame is higher than the bleeder on the wheel cylinder. The vehicle was sitting on its' tires when I made these mounts and bent the lines and it's on jack stands now so every thing was out of sync but when I put the vehicle weight back on the tires the joint at the frame is still higher than the bleeders. Vacuum bleeding doesn't seem like it is fast enough to keep the air in the lines from going back to the high place. Will the old style bleeding get the job done or is it time for another re-design? GPster

enjenjo

#1
May 10, 2006, 08:49:46 AM
Two man bleeding should take care of it.
Welcome to hell. Here's your accordion.

Charlie Chops 1940

#2
May 10, 2006, 01:30:18 PM
What Frank said.

I have a pressure bleeder but I tend to rely on having a partner pump, hold and release while I control the bleeder, hose and fruit jar. It always works.

Charlie
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying. "Wow...that was fun!"

Poster geezer for retirement....

A Hooligan!

EMSjunkie

#3
May 10, 2006, 02:07:54 PM
I had a pressure bleeder once, he prolly lost half his blood supply before we got him to the hospital :shock:  :wink:


Vance
"I don\'t know what your problem is, but I bet its hard to pronounce"

1934 Ford 3 Window
Member, Rural Rodders
Member, National Sarcasm Society  "Like we need your support"
*****Co-Founder  Team Smart*****

GPster

#4
May 10, 2006, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"I had a pressure bleeder once, he prolly lost half his blood supply before we got him to the hospital :shock:  :wink: Vance
I was there once (but kind of asleep). They told the insurance company 13 units (or was it 9 so they could open me up and lose 4 more). It didn't leak out but I think it was kind of messy looking for my spleen. GPster

EMSjunkie

#5
May 12, 2006, 02:02:01 AM
Quote from: "GPster"It didn't leak out but I think it was kind of messy looking for my spleen. GPster


I bet so!! :shock:

thats a lot of blood loss. :!:

I've worked a few calls where I thought we were gonna hafta mop the back of the truck, filter it, and give it back to the patient. :shock:  :shock:


Vance
"I don\'t know what your problem is, but I bet its hard to pronounce"

1934 Ford 3 Window
Member, Rural Rodders
Member, National Sarcasm Society  "Like we need your support"
*****Co-Founder  Team Smart*****

Skip

#6
May 14, 2006, 05:34:43 PM
Pressure bleeders are then ONLY way you can bleed DOT-5 in a Corvette but that's another story.

DON'T PUMP THE PEDAL!
Pumping the pedal will just induce air bubbles into the system and it'll take a while for them to collect in the high spots again.

ONE firm push and crack the bleed screw farthest from the master cylinder.

Close the screw and let up the pedal.

ONE more firm push and repeat then process over and over until you start to get brake fluid out.

Make sure that, once the pedal moves, the pusher forces it to the floor as fast as possible.  This will help build enough velocity to carry the air along with the fluid.


The reason you need a pressure bleeder for OT-5 is that the fluid is SO slippery that the air bubbles cling to the inside of the tubing.  A pressure bleeder will create a constant, higher velocity flow than the two-man method and it'll remover the air bubbles better

Remember, DON'T pump the pedal.

Work your way around to the last wheel (the closest one to the master) and you're done.
Skip

Early Hemi SME
Hot Rod Wiring Consulting

GPster

#7
May 14, 2006, 06:30:45 PM
Quote from: "Skip"Pressure bleeders are then ONLY way you can bleed DOT-5 in a Corvette but that's another story.DON'T PUMP THE PEDAL!
Pumping the pedal will just induce air bubbles into the system and it'll take a while for them to collect in the high spots again.ONE firm push and crack the bleed screw farthest from the master cylinder.Close the screw and let up the pedal.ONE more firm push and repeat then process over and over until you start to get brake fluid out.Make sure that, once the pedal moves, the pusher forces it to the floor as fast as possible.  This will help build enough velocity to carry the air along with the fluid.The reason you need a pressure bleeder for OT-5 is that the fluid is SO slippery that the air bubbles cling to the inside of the tubing.  A pressure bleeder will create a constant, higher velocity flow than the two-man method and it'll remover the air bubbles betterRemember, DON'T pump the pedal.Work your way around to the last wheel (the closest one to the master) and you're done.
Those directions couldn't have come at a better time. I was just working with a mechanically impared helper (wife) and now she'll have something to read while setting there. I course it is good to have a reminder of the procedure because you sometimes forget all the steps while you're trying to explain the next step to someone at the other end of the car. My access to a pressure bleeder just went on vacation for a week and after I came up minus a battery powered drill a new sawsall and a weedwacker I don't want th concern about the contents of someone else's garage. Thanks for going back and reading the older questions. GPster

1FATGMC

#8
May 14, 2006, 07:48:59 PM
   

I got one of those hand pump vac/pressure pumps a couple years ago and have been using it by myself (saves a good relationship) and it seems to be working good for me.

c ya, Sum

GPster

#9
May 14, 2006, 08:18:20 PM
Quote from: "1FATGMC"    

I got one of those hand pump vac/pressure pumps a couple years ago and have been using it by myself (saves a good relationship) and it seems to be working good for me.c ya, Sum
I've got one of those too. It came highly reccommend for bleeding motorcycle disc brakes and it has worked well on newer automotive brakes but for some reason the only way I've ever been able to get the brakes bled on this chassis as a car or this project was with a pressure bleeder. I thought I could understand the problems I had before bleeding the rear brake when I put in new lines but with the master cylinder rebuilt and new brake lines on the front I thought it would become a "school book" case. I'm either closing in on it or it's closing in on me. GPster

river1

#10
May 14, 2006, 10:08:26 PM
make your own pressure bleeder

http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm

later jim
Most people have a higher than average number of legs.

1FATGMC

#11
May 15, 2006, 12:00:54 AM
Quote from: "river1"make your own pressure bleeder

http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm

later jim

Hey that is pretty neat.  My hand pump works, but something like that would work better.

Thanks Jim,

Sum

GPster

#12
May 15, 2006, 08:51:09 AM
Quote from: "river1"make your own pressure bleederhttp://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htmlater jim
Jim , you have too much free time on your hands. Exploring BMW sites for ideas. Now I have to add Ace Hardware to my shopping trip. I wonder why he didn't use empty brake fluid containers for his bleeder catch can? I have a pint and quart empty so far. I've been using an empty (and washed out) plastic peanut butter jar with a 4 cup coffee filter in it. That way I can recycle the fluid and pour it back in the master cylinder for another shot. There's no paint on this project yet so it seems such a waste to not let this fluid do it's second job, lifting fresh paint. If I knew how to use the camera that could be this months teck entry. GPster

GPster

#13
May 24, 2006, 07:01:45 AM
Well this update. With Skip's right hand and my wife's right foot I went through his bleeding proceedure. I had the front drums off and I could see the front brakes working (I had a big cabinet clamps accross the shoes to keep the together) and went through the proceedure. Got a few bubbles and realized that most of the pedal was being used-up pushing the shoes to the drums because of the cabinet clamps on the front and the brakes being "backed-off" on the rear to let the transmission and rear end circulate fresh ATF and rear end grease during the flood clean up proceedure. Adjusted the back brakes and removed the front brakes for a clean-up before putting the drums on. Then I found the next problem (s the right side kingpin bearing are worn) the driver's side wheel cylinder was froze closed. Well I only do things half way to half way find the problem, so I broke the freeze with a "C" clamp and "Blaster" and re-assembled that side too. After one healthy pump on the pedal (that went to the floor) I appeared to have brakes. Now I'll spend some time looking for wheel cylinders or kits, all the small brake hardware and kingpins. Now with there still being no floor I might hook up the emergency             brake. Still at it, GPster

GPster

#14
July 04, 2006, 07:32:21 PM
Well, I finally got back to it. I had a chance with a somewhat responcible helper (my son) and started at the furthest point. Nothing! Tried the other rear bleeder. Nothing! Parted the line befor the rubber hose to the rear axel, Plenty! Now what little I've driven this thing across the yard I knew it only had rear brakes so I wasn't surprised that the front flex lines were bad but the back one has swelled closed internally since this subject started. Does new fluid effect old rubber? Kind of hard to trouble shoot and the front wheel cylinder is leaking again. Well our bargain shopper comes out tomorrow. Maybe I can buy someone else's problem. I'm getting tired of mine. GPster
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