E85 Fuel...

Sean · April 19, 2006, 06:33:09 PM

I haven't seen this come up yet, so if it already has... bite me, I'm bringing it back up anyway

What would it take to run E85 in my SBC? Availability is increasing around here, mainly because we have a brand new ethanol plant in the area. I know the price difference isn't much yet, but hopefully it will get cheaper as production increases. Cheaper or not, I would prefer to support our Farmers rather than the Camel Jockies.

I don't know about any of the other Ethanol plants, but this one is a Co-op. Just about all the local Farmers I know bought shares in it, and only shareholders can sell Corn directly to the Plant.

I would assume that my Edelbrock carb and newer fuel pump are already alchohol compatible, since the 10% stuff has been around for a while? Or is the 10% stuff weak enough that it doesn't eat things up?

I would think that the higher octane of 85% alchohol would allow you to advance the timing quite a bit and make up for some of the power loss, but will the engine still start allright?

Several years ago, a local horsepower nut that has more money than sense had an alchohol burning, 420something SBC in a '62 Vette. The car was street driven (occasionally), but I was told that he had to start it by squirting gasoline down the carb when the engine was cold. Was this because of the alchohol, or just because it was a monster engine that had no business on the street anyway?

Mainly just curious for now, I haven't even started my truck in over a year. The distributor crapped out and it has taken me this long to get motivated enough to replace it. After driving nothing but the Company truck and our Montero for a year, I am feeling the need for horsepower and shifts that bounce your head off the back glass...

donsrods · April 19, 2006, 06:59:24 PM

I work at at Marina, and we just got a letter from one of our engine manufacturers a few weeks ago talking about this change in gasoline. Bottom line, the government has mandated by the end of 2006 Ethenol has to replace some other chemical in gas (I don't have the letter in front of me) 26 States have already complied and are selling this type of gas, and the others must follow suit.

The letter told us to start expecting fuel related problems because the new gas can't be mixed with the old, without gelling sometimes. They can't even ship the new gas in a tanker that has had the other gas hauled in it.

That is how much I know, but it looks like we will all be using this gas very soon. The letter said the problems are worse in hot climates (OH GREAT>>>>>I LIVE IN FLORIDA

)

We went on line, and found more info on it, but I don't remember more than what I have posted here.

Don

enjenjo · April 19, 2006, 08:22:52 PM

E85 is really designed for fuel injected engines, the newer ones can sense the fuel in the tank and adjust the fuel delivery accordingly

With a carb, you can use it, but the fuel system hoses and so forth have to be compatible. Also, you will have to rejet, nearly twice as big as you are now, and you can't change back and forth from one to the other without changes.

Sean · April 19, 2006, 08:55:06 PM

Quote from: "enjenjo"you can't change back and forth from one to the other without changes.

So couldn't you just use two different carbs in that case? Or would it be more involved than that?

All of my driving is within a 50 mile radius, so as long as two or three towns in the area carry the stuff, I wouldn't have a problem with swapping over permanently anyway.

And why would mixing E85 with gasoline make it gel? Must be something in there besides Alchohol...

enjenjo · April 19, 2006, 09:08:02 PM

Yes, two carbs would work.

Sean · April 19, 2006, 09:11:14 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

This has quite a bit of information. Mostly about computerized cars, but there is some info on using E85 in older stuff.

Crosley.In.AZ · April 19, 2006, 11:30:18 PM

I checked on my 2006 Silverado for E85 use . My truck is not flexible fuel compatible per GM when I checked the VIN number.

AZ uses ethanol as an additive for cleaner air . I do not understand why it would gell in standard gasoline and new transport trucks needed.

tomslik · April 20, 2006, 05:45:03 AM

Quote from: "Crosley"I checked on my 2006 Silverado for E85 use . My truck is not flexible fuel compatible per GM when I checked the VIN number.

AZ uses ethanol as an additive for cleaner air . I do not understand why it would gell in standard gasoline and new transport trucks needed.

i don't think it's the gas but the MTBE that makes it gel

Mikej · April 20, 2006, 09:26:17 AM

It will clean all of the varnish out of your non alcohol system. I think 40 (Daryle) found that out on the 55 he bought a couple years ago. I think you have to jet up about 30%. There is a difference in the btu rating. (alcohol is less). Octane rate should go up to around 100.

jaybee · April 20, 2006, 10:03:59 AM

If you've been running 10% Ethanol at least part of the time or the fuel system was recently built from new/clean parts (including, maybe especially the gas tank) you shouldn't experience any fuel system problems. If the car has some years on it and has varnish in the fuel system it will be dissolved and clog a fuel filter or two before you're good to go. It will dissolve some fuel tank sealers and soften older rubber/plastic parts. 10% Ethanol has been around long enough that new products have virtually all been respec'ed to eliminate problems. Changing carbs would allow you to switch back and forth, you'd want to do it when the tank is nearly empty.

They often start Alcohol-burning engines by squirting gasoline down the intake because the heat of vaporization for Alky is lower than gasoline which makes it hard to light in a cold engine. E85 is Alcohol with just enough Gasoline added to fire the engine easily.

I'd be very interested in seeing the results of an engine built to run just on E85. It could have high compression like the "good old days" due to the high octane, not sure what other changes would be beneficial. The information from Wikipedia was very interesting. I suspect the reports of increased power from late model performance engines are because the knock sensors common in new cars allow the timing to be advanced beyond what is possible with 91 Octane gasoline.

phat46 · April 20, 2006, 04:31:18 PM

I don't understand the jelling, the vehicles that are designed to run on the E85 can use regular gas too, wouldn't it gell in the tank when you switched back and forth?

Land Yacht · April 22, 2006, 08:38:39 PM

As I understand it ethanol is being used to replace another additive, MTBE. This is because MTBE is a nuerotoxin and traveles through the ground fairly long distances when spilled to reach groundwater. I am suprised they were still using it anywhere, they outlawed it here not long after they tried using it.

Crosley.In.AZ · April 22, 2006, 11:03:27 PM

Quote from: "tomslik"
Quote from: "Crosley"I checked on my 2006 Silverado for E85 use . My truck is not flexible fuel compatible per GM when I checked the VIN number.

AZ uses ethanol as an additive for cleaner air . I do not understand why it would gell in standard gasoline and new transport trucks needed.

i don't think it's the gas but the MTBE that makes it gel

I thought MTBE was out-lawed due to polution from the residue produced?