Detroit-isn't it about the product?

[butch27]

Yeh: What Frank said. At Ford their motto was "Let the dealer fix it", the union worker had no say about the  product.  I guess Japan thinks differently than our over-payed CEO s.

[river1]

I guess Japan thinks differently than our over-payed CEO s.

our CEO recently left the company and received a rumored $14 million dollar severance bonus, that is roughly DOUBLE what all of my fellow union workers make collectively. when in our recent union contract negotiation the subject of a pay raise came up they said there is no money for one. when one of the union negotiators brought up the fact that the CEO got the rumored $14 million the company's negotiating lawyer said with a straight face "WELL A MANS GOTTA EAT".

and they expect us to be happy and content.

ain't gonna happen

later jim

[unklian]

I've seen non-union companies MUCH worse than the union shops I worked in.Very much the "Do as you are told because I'm in charge" mentality.

Detroit used to think it didn't matter what they built,people would buy it.
That idea didn't work for the manufacturing sector in England or Italy.
And it doesn't work over here either.

The guys running the last place I was at claimed they were in a
"recession proof industry".  5 years later,in a booming economy,
with a growing market,sales were down by over 50%,and so were
the number of employees.

Who's idea was it to keep selling a product with a greater than 100% failure rate ?  Not the guy on the shop floor.
Who dropped a quality product that was selling,in favor of a cheap
foreign model that nobody wanted? Who was it who said "most of these products never get used,so it doesn't matter if they won't stand up"  ?
I'll give you a clue,they still works there,and I don't.

Those first in line to take credit when things are going well,should be
the first to step up when things are not going well.  

And anyone that wants to invest money in a foreign country
should go live there.

[jaybee]

I'll agree that in SOME environments the unions get unreasonable.  Usually management is pretty unreasonable at those places as well.

United Airlines just fought their way out of bankruptcy with the assistance of wage concessions from all of their unions.  To celebrate the top 100 managers received a total of $100M in bonuses.  If you were one of their employees would YOU agree to concessions next time they ask for them?

Just one more example of how in our society EVERYONE has to be FIRST and a lot of people don't care who they step on to get it.

[enjenjo]

There was an article in the paper yesterday, Delphi is considering $44 million in bonuses for their top executives for "retention", after asking the floor workers to take a 50 percent pay cut. Do you really want to "retain" executives that have run the business into the ground? Is there really that big a market for bad executives that you have to bribe them to stay?

[Aaron51Chevy]

That is Unbelivable!  I think the best thing Ford and Wagner did was take the paycut, though it could/should be more.  A lot of what has been said here is exactly why the big 3 loose market share.  I would like to know what hourly workers at one of the japanese compaines feel about their companies.  The only people I know seem to love working for them.  One in metro detroit (tier 1 to big three) is a VERY good company to work for.  The culture change starts at the top and companies that give exec's golden gooses still is NOT the way to go.  Thing is how are investors going to feel about Delphi doing that ?  I sure as hell wouldn't invest in them!

[phat46]

Is there really that big a market for bad executives that you have to bribe them to stay?[/quote]

Heck, for a measly million I'd run Delphi into the ground in record time!!!  

[butch27]

I'll do it for half a mil.

[Mikej]

If all of the other companies( not to be mentioned) are SO GOOD, why do they have service departments? I have owned more than one of each of the big threes car or trucks and never had major problems. This is about images. Slanted car magazines. Poor ads by big three. How about the other cars not having car parts for months. Heard that one?
I'm not a union fan either. $65+ an hour to do the same job over and over. Or a mailman $30+ to do what any kid can do. ( that ought to bring in some hate mail) There is no top brass worth more than a million a year. That would be $200 an hour if they worked 80 hours a week.
What it comes down to for Americans is price. If you can give a $5000 rebate and still make money, you are screwing me. If you don't change the design on a pickup for 10 years the price should come down. I like the looks of some of the HI-Po new cars but I'm not buying. Not practical. The value of the cars is not there. They have alot to fix and they better start at the top.
 Unfair trade practicies with are so called friends in this world are another major problem. Some protectionism would benefit us greatly but would hurt the rich. So guess who wins out. Our food products are best in the world but other coutries find some lame excuse not to import them. Their not all natural.
 My point is level the playing field and get real on the prices. Some people need cheap cars. Its called entry level. If you don't get them first you aren't going to get them.
Putting away the soap box now.

[donsrods]

Mikej:  To answer your first question, "if they are so good why do they have service departments?'  The reason is obvious. Every mechanical product has a certain life to it, whether it is a $10,000.00 Kia or a $ 600,000.00 exotic sportscar. Man has not invented any mechanical product yet that doesn't need serviced or repaired from time to time.

The second point you raise is that people are buying these other cars because they are cheap. No they are buying them because they WORK.
Hondas, toyotas, and others have a great reputation for being solid, dependable cars. Like I said in my earlier post, I would put 160,000 miles on my Toyotas and think nothing of jumping in one and going on a 1500 mile trip. I knew it would get me home. Every American car I have had, and still have is pretty much dead at 100,000. Sure, someone will respond that they have a Chevy with 3 zillion miles on it, but on average, this is not the case.

Years ago I bought my Son a Honda that had 130,000 miles on it, and I was a little concerned about that high milage, so I called the local Honda Service Manager. He said "yeah, I'd be a little worried too. It only has about another 100,000 miles left in it!"  Know what? He wasn't kidding, it just ran and ran and ran.

I love America, but our car manufacturers do not build cars like they did in the past.

[unklian]

Actually,American cars ARE much better than they used to be.

Mostly because many of the imports made them look bad by
making cars the way they should be.Better quality at a decent price.  

It used to be common for a domestic car to be burning oil before
it hit 100,000 miles,and rust through was common on 10 year old cars.

Not any more,and rightfully so.

Too bad they didn't make decent cars a lot earlier.
We would all be better off.

Instead,they tried to live off their reputation;
now that reputation works against them.

[Mikej]

AND my wife's last car a Lebaron convert had 130000 miles on it. We traded because I was tired of it.  My last 2 Ranger pickups have 150000 on them and are still going. For my buisness I have bought 10 or 12 Rangers in the last 17 years and will continue to buy them. My brother has a Neon with 200000. My sons honda 1 motor and a trans and its a rust bucket. The lady at the local gas station had a KIA that was such a pos that she was going to use the lemon law before they gave her a different car. Like you said, all car companies have service departments, my point exactly.
 My dad's last Chevy was a 1970 Impala. The service dept at the dealer could never get it to run right, he never bought another. Now he drives fords and chrysler products. Obviously chevies have come along way since than but as far as he is concerned they suck. I have a Grand Prix and love it.
I don't like buying something that says made in China. My wife picked up a low profile jack for me before Christmas. Jack Roush Racing label on it. You guessed it made in China. A disclaimer on it, if something goes wrong with it don't blame Jack. (Thats a pun.)
I buy in town when ever possible, even if it costs more.(small town)

[butch27]

They just showed a news thing on our local Detroit channel about how the CEO's of the troubled companies are living the good life and flying to ski trips while claiming it's the cost of labor killing the company. It just ain't so.