Add on turn signals with a positive ground

WZ JUNK · January 20, 2006, 07:00:47 PM

I started this morning putting a Speedway add on turn signal switch on a stock 1950 Ford. This is the old add on style that clamps to the side of the steering column. I have some problems. The car is a 6 volt positive ground. Second problem is, Speedway did not send a 6 volt flasher with the 6/12 volt signal assembly. We can not find a 6 volt 3 prong flasher at any of the local part stores and they can not order one in. We will order one from Speedway but the freight will be more that the flasher. The wiring diagram shows how to wire the switch for 6/12 volt negative ground but no information for positive ground. The schematic shows only one wire going to the battery for power and no wire grounding the switch. I am thinking that it completes the circuit by passing through the light socket to the frame. If I connect this power wire through a fuse and to the negative side of the battery, will the system work?

Need a little help on this one. TIA

John

enjenjo · January 20, 2006, 10:41:47 PM

The switch doesn't know which way the electrons are flowing, it works positive or negative ground. The flasher may not be so cooperative. Some will not work positive ground.

There currently is no US manufacturer of 6 volt flashers. The ones Speedway and the others are selling are made off shore, and are junk. In my experience, about 1/2 of tem won't work at all. I have been picking up NORS flashers at swap meets for the last couple years, TungSol or Wagoner mostly. But they are getting scarce.

Crosley.In.AZ · January 20, 2006, 11:17:53 PM

I added a turn signal switch as you describe to my 51 Crosley years ago when the OE Crosley dash switch puked.

It just happened I already had a 6 volt flasher on the Crosley.

it works fine.

1FATGMC · January 21, 2006, 12:22:35 AM

Quote from: "enjenjo"The switch doesn't know which way the electrons are flowing, it works positive or negative ground. The flasher may not be so cooperative. Some will not work positive ground.

There currently is no US manufacturer of 6 volt flashers. The ones Speedway and the others are selling are made off shore, and are junk. In my experience, about 1/2 of tem won't work at all. I have been picking up NORS flashers at swap meets for the last couple years, TungSol or Wagoner mostly. But they are getting scarce.

Could he use a relay running on the positive ground to run a seperate negative ground circuit to the flasher?

c ya,

Sum

enjenjo · January 21, 2006, 01:16:21 AM

Most flashers are mechanical, they just have a bimetallic switch in them, that make and breaks contact. Heavy duty flashers use a type of motor to make and break contact regardless of load. These will work both positive and negative ground.

But a lot of flashers now days use electronic components, diodes and relays to make and break the circuits. These have to be used negative ground only.

To do what you mentioned Sum, you need a second battery hooked up negative ground. you can't use one battery both positive and negative ground at the same time.

Crosley.In.AZ · January 21, 2006, 09:09:13 AM

Quote from: "enjenjo"

To do what you mentioned Sum, you need a second battery hooked up negative ground. you can't use one battery both positive and negative ground at the same time.

I am thinking smoke could happen with Sum's idear. Electric stuff runs on smoke

1FATGMC · January 21, 2006, 10:25:08 AM

Quote from: "enjenjo"
To do what you mentioned Sum, you need a second battery hooked up negative ground. you can't use one battery both positive and negative ground at the same time.

I'm saying to keep the flasher isolated from the frame and any grounding there. It would be wired to the battery through the negative and positive sides of the batter with wires only, not using the frame/body/chassis in the circuit. It would be a totaly isolated circuit. Maybe I'm missing something here

.

Yep Tony, I've had a few of my ideas go up in smoke

.

c ya, Sum

Crosley.In.AZ · January 21, 2006, 10:34:03 AM

Does the flasher really care if the ground is pos or neg?

I must admit I've never checked them to see.

I think the regular old style flasher works with either ground setup. The voltage is the key.

Would a 12 volt flasher function , just a bit slower at 6 volts?

enjenjo · January 21, 2006, 11:39:22 AM

QuoteI'm saying to keep the flasher isolated from the frame and any grounding there. It would be wired to the battery through the negative and positive sides of the battery with wires only, not using the frame/body/chassis in the circuit. It would be a totaly isolated circuit. Maybe I'm missing something here .

It sounds logical. I still don't think it will work. Go ahead and try it. What's the worst that can happen? The end of the universe as we know it is all.

QuoteDoes the flasher really care if the ground is pos or neg?

As mentioned above, the older ones are not polarity sensitive, the newer ones are. If it doesn't make a loud click when operating, it's probably polarity sensitive.

QuoteWould a 12 volt flasher function , just a bit slower at 6 volts?

The newer style, no, definitely. They won't work on 11 volts. The old bimetallic style? Maybe, depending on which style of mechanical it is, and what your actual voltage is.

1FATGMC · January 21, 2006, 01:02:25 PM

Quote from: "enjenjo"
QuoteI'm saying to keep the flasher isolated from the frame and any grounding there. It would be wired to the battery through the negative and positive sides of the battery with wires only, not using the frame/body/chassis in the circuit. It would be a totaly isolated circuit. Maybe I'm missing something here .

It sounds logical. I still don't think it will work. Go ahead and try it. What's the worst that can happen? The end of the universe as we know it is all.

See John, go ahead and try it!!! I don't have anything to loose and you are a long way from Utah

.

c ya, Sum

bowtietillidie · January 21, 2006, 09:17:52 PM

I remember years ago when CB Radio was the rage . All the truckers had them, the Macks and Freightliners were positive ground. the garage I was working for went to Radio Shack I belive and bought this little box that solved the polarity problem. Later on most radio's came with a little switch
you set to the correct polarity for the applatcation. If you have an old CB
check it for this switch or check Radio Shack. Hope this helps .

WZ JUNK · January 23, 2006, 02:15:57 PM

Quote from: "WZ JUNK"I started this morning putting a Speedway add on turn signal switch on a stock 1950 Ford. This is the old add on style that clamps to the side of the steering column. I have some problems. The car is a 6 volt positive ground. Second problem is, Speedway did not send a 6 volt flasher with the 6/12 volt signal assembly. We can not find a 6 volt 3 prong flasher at any of the local part stores and they can not order one in. We will order one from Speedway but the freight will be more that the flasher. The wiring diagram shows how to wire the switch for 6/12 volt negative ground but no information for positive ground. The schematic shows only one wire going to the battery for power and no wire grounding the switch. I am thinking that it completes the circuit by passing through the light socket to the frame. If I connect this power wire through a fuse and to the negative side of the battery, will the system work?

John

It worked fine wiring it this way except the turn signal indicators in the unit did not work. I suspect they are LEDs and they would not work with the reverse flow. I jumpered wires from the front turn signal wires to the indicator lights that were in the dash. That made the whole system even better. Thanks for the help. The system is fused but since I ran the power wire to the battery lead at the solenoid, it is hot all the time and not keyed off the ignition switch. I really wanted to hook it to the key switch but the owner was satisfied with it the way it is now.

John

GPster · January 23, 2006, 02:36:52 PM

Quote from: "WZ JUNK"It worked fine wiring it this way except the turn signal indicators in the unit did not work. I suspect they are LEDs and they would not work with the reverse flow. I jumpered wires from the front turn signal wires to the indicator lights that were in the dash. That made the whole system even better. John

The old type of flashers that have the bi-metalic strip/switch in them are current sensitive and by adding the dash light/indicators to the circuit you made the flasher see more current drawthat would make it flash more like it was interned. I can'y figure out how to make things work but if it does I can figure out why. GPster

enjenjo · January 23, 2006, 02:57:51 PM

The Speedway Flasher unit is not real high quality, so the pilot light circuit may be defective. Also, the body of the turn signal switch has to have a good ground for the pilot to work. I have installed several of them. Had some problems with them too.

WZ JUNK · January 23, 2006, 03:04:58 PM

Quote from: "enjenjo"The Speedway Flasher unit is not real high quality, so the pilot light circuit may be defective. Also, the body of the turn signal switch has to have a good ground for the pilot to work. I have installed several of them. Had some problems with them too.

We found some new old stock flashers that worked fine for $1 a piece. The next time you are here, I need to take you to a couple of places that you will find very interesting.