Inline booster.

Gilles · April 27, 2005, 09:52:21 AM

I was looking last night at some old Rod&Custom magazine, around 10 years old. Particularly the tech articles ont the "Mail order delivery project" I noticed that on this car the brake booster is not mounted directly behind the dual master-cylinder but inline in another place. I never see such a thing :?: before.

On my roadster I have a non-booster master-cylinder. The car stops well but I have to pull the pedal very hard. There is not enough room to install a brake booster underfloor where the master-cylinder is, due to the K crossmember.

So maybe an inline booster like on the Mail order delivery can solve my problem? I had a look on the Speedway motors catalog but couldn't find one.

I wonder if some of you have used one and have idea were to find one, or on which car?

Gilles :?:

Uncle Bob · April 27, 2005, 10:44:38 AM

Here's a link to the site for C H Topping, http://www.chtopping.com/Home/index.html
They designed the system. Toward the bottom of the index is the choice for Street Rod Builder, April, 2001, click that and it will pull up the article.

Sorry, no first hand use report.

Ohio Blue Tip · April 27, 2005, 10:54:35 AM

There is a remote single power booster. It was a "Midland" booster. The problem is it only handles boost for a single master cylinder. I just removed one from the 1934 Ford I am building, it had a single master cylinder and the booster that fed a dual proportioning valve using a tee to feed front and rear brakes. I pulled it all out to opt for a dual system.

I had an old motor home that used two Midland power boosters for a dual system.

There is also a new hydraulic booster that goes in front of the master cylinder and runs off of a power steering pump, vary small, I think it may be quite expensive.

model a vette · April 27, 2005, 12:01:24 PM

There is a dual remote mount booster available. It is basically just two single ones bolted together. I think they are about $250-$300 US. They are not small! I would play with the size of the bore for the master first. Do you have enough travel to allow you to go to a smaller bore master? If you have a 1" now you could try a 15/16ths or a 7/8th bore master. It would make you push the pedal father to stop but would be easier to push.

Uncle Bob · April 27, 2005, 12:22:50 PM

And here's another alternative; http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/remote_booster.html

model a vette · April 27, 2005, 12:33:28 PM

Quote from: "Uncle Bob"And here's another alternative; http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/remote_booster.html

Yeah, that's the one I was thinking about. $495.00, wow! I can imagine what that would cost by the time Gilles got it thru customs in France! He can buy a lot of master cyls for that price!

Ohio Blue Tip · April 27, 2005, 01:31:05 PM

That Hydroboost system I mentioned was in this months Rod & Custom. I checked on pricing and they seem to be about $700 for a kit. I guess I won't be trying that soon.

enjenjo · April 27, 2005, 07:22:32 PM

Quote from: "Ohio Blue Tip"That Hydroboost system I mentioned was in this months Rod & Custom. I checked on pricing and they seem to be about $700 for a kit. I guess I won't be trying that soon.

There are lots of hydroboost units in junk yards. Most GM diesels used them, along with a large share of gas powered pickups, Lincolns, Mercurys, and Full Size Fords. They are easy to install, Pressure line from the pump to the booster, a second pressure line from the booster to the steering box, and a return line from both the steering box, and the booster. If it's mounted under the floor, I have the Hose store make up hard lines back to the booster. The only change in the pump is a provision for two return lines, but you can Tee the single return line on the pump, to accept two return lines. Standard Vacuum power booster master cylinders fit fine. I've yet to find one that didn't work, as long as there was no water in it.

Bruce Dorsi · April 27, 2005, 11:17:44 PM

Lotus Europas sold in this country were required to use a dual-circuit brake system, so Lotus used two remote brake boosters, which were operated by one dual master cylinder. ....I think the remote boosters were made by Girling. ....Perhaps they were used on other European cars, as well.

I read in "Street Scene" that Engineered Components, Inc. (ECI) introduced a new product which was picked at last year's NSRA Nats for a "Best New Product" award. .....The product was a "Brake Pressure Multiplier," or "BPM."

There was no information about it on ECI's website when I looked, and it is not featured in their advertisements. .....I'm guessing that it may be similar to an accumulator, or intensifier, in a hydraulic circuit.

SimonSez · April 28, 2005, 12:16:46 AM

There is another version of an inline (remote) booster that is made by PBR in Australia. Do a search for VH44 and you will find some examples of people using them.

I used one in a 60's Falcon when I converted it to front discs. It had a firewall mounted dual circuit master sylinder and I mounted the VH44 on the front guard plumbed into the front brake circuit only. It worked very well setup like that.

Here is a link to a Swedish site that has them - is a bit closer to you than Australia.

http://www.cvi-automotive.se/resdela/5_bromsar/1_p1800brakes.htm

Gilles · April 28, 2005, 02:27:07 AM

Thanks for the answers.

Invest 500$ or 700$ in a booster is definitely not in my projects!

I will search on wich européan car I can find one (or two with my dual circuit) and at wich price. :?:

I don't remember the bore size of the master cylinder I use but with a smaller one I'm afraid to have too much pedal travel, and the second circuit not fonctionning in case of a problem. But I keep the idea to modify the pedal ratio in mind. I already did it once by lenghtening the pedal, I had to move the steering colonn on the left to make room. Fortunetly the car was in primer at this time. It helps but not enough.

Gilles

Gilles · April 29, 2005, 02:28:34 AM

I did some measurement and calculation yesterday.

The master-cylinder is a 7/8 inch bore from a Chevy Monza.
The pedal ratio is 5.5 to1. I think it's not enough, the problem is certainely there.

The pedal travel is 6 inch (back of the pedal to the floor) Half of this travel is used to pull enough fluid for a hard braking.

The question is : Does a smaller master-cylinder bore will be able to pull enough fluid in the second circuit in case of a leak?

If not I will have to modify the pedal again for more travel!

Gilles :?:

bcal · April 29, 2005, 03:30:36 AM

Alfa Romeos, pre 1974 (Guliettas), had dual power vac boosters mounted in the engine compartment with a dual 7/8 bore master cylinder under the floor.
I have a set and they were made by Lockheed, English I think because the fittings are imperial.
Others I have seen are Italian, probably ATE. They are a bit more compact than the Lockheed ones.
These may be a bit easier for you to source in Europe.

I would be cautious about going any less than 7/8 on the master cylinder. I think you're better off selecting the master cylinder bore and stroke to suit your wheel cylinders and then look at either a booster or increasing pedal ratio to reduce pedal effort.

Gilles · April 29, 2005, 05:28:20 AM

Thank-you for the advice, I will have a look on old Alfa -Romeo!

Gilles

bcal · April 29, 2005, 06:08:51 AM

A bit more info.
You're looking at an Alfa Berlina, 69 to 71 vintage.
They used either the Lockheed, Bonaldi or Benditalia boosters.
The latter two were also used on many other Italian cars of that vintage and are a copy of a Dunlop booster.
The Lockheed was indeed made in the UK and was used on many British cars and Volvos. Maybe even a few French cars

Here's a pic of a couple of Lockheeds in a Lotus.