Speaking of painting your car in the garage .....

58Apache · February 14, 2005, 05:48:36 PM

I am on a budget, but have way too much time into this car to put something on that's not going to look very good a couple of years from now.

Also, I have never painted a car before. I do have some basics now, and have read a lot, but that doesn't get you the education you get from the school of hard knocks. I learned to listen when people give advice.

My plans were to go with House of Kolor because the color I want I first seen on a car at a show and that's what they used. Now of course the guys at PPG and Dupont say they can match any color, but locally I seem to get the best service from the PPG paint and body supply store.

I have access to a paint booth at minimal cost to me, and can even pay $100 for a former pro to spray it for me....after I do ALL of the prep.

I just might go that way, but will do all body work and primer in my garage.

How about some tips on dust reduction, opinions on paint vs. costs, and your favorite primer gun?

Thanks!
Steve

DRD57 · February 14, 2005, 06:00:55 PM

A booth is a REALLY good idea if you have access to one. No matter how much you do to make your garage or carport a clean environment, it won't be as good as a real paint booth.

Having the x-pro spray if might be a good idea too but then you don't get the satisfaction of being able to say you did it yourself. I'm not a pro, never have been, but I have painted a bunch of cars and there is little in the hobby that compares to the satisfaction of spraying a * paint job. Practice on parts to get the feel of it.

I use a Harbor Freight HVLP gun for primer. As long as it goes on wet and smooth, I'm happy. 90% of it ends up on the floor from block sanding anyway.

Even though you're on a budget, I recommend spending the dough for the best materials you can buy. A quality paint job is going to cost a chunk of money and it's going to be an even bigger chunk of work. Work that you're not going to want to repeat on the same car any time soon. Do all you can to make it the best it can be so it will last.

Dave · February 14, 2005, 06:04:57 PM

Quote from: "58Apache"I am on a budget, but have way too much time into this car to put something on that's not going to look very good a couple of years from now.

Also, I have never painted a car before. I do have some basics now, and have read a lot, but that doesn't get you the education you get from the school of hard knocks. I learned to listen when people give advice.

My plans were to go with House of Kolor because the color I want I first seen on a car at a show and that's what they used. Now of course the guys at PPG and Dupont say they can match any color, but locally I seem to get the best service from the PPG paint and body supply store.

I have access to a paint booth at minimal cost to me, and can even pay $100 for a former pro to spray it for me....after I do ALL of the prep.

I just might go that way, but will do all body work and primer in my garage.

How about some tips on dust reduction, opinions on paint vs. costs, and your favorite primer gun?

Thanks!

Steve

Go for the booth and the painter... As far as a guns a toss up. Ive used a bunch of them and I really dont like the new hvlp stuff . Ive got a 65.00 pratco I bought 20 years ago that works as good as anything ive used.
Dust... Blow it off tack it off wet down the floor.
Primer is easy and your gonna block most of it off anyway so dust isnt usually an issue. HOK .... Im not gonna go there.. Well we tried it on my 32 and it sucked so we went dupont but ppg is good too. I usually use ppg but the guy that did my 32 is a dupont guy so we used that and its great .I got a good job.

Dave

Beck · February 14, 2005, 06:30:46 PM

Quote from: "58Apache"I am on a budget, but have way too much time into this car to put something on that's not going to look very good a couple of years from now.

Also, I have never painted a car before. I do have some basics now, and have read a lot, but that doesn't get you the education you get from the school of hard knocks. I learned to listen when people give advice.

My plans were to go with House of Kolor because the color I want I first seen on a car at a show and that's what they used. Now of course the guys at PPG and Dupont say they can match any color, but locally I seem to get the best service from the PPG paint and body supply store.

I have access to a paint booth at minimal cost to me, and can even pay $100 for a former pro to spray it for me....after I do ALL of the prep.

I just might go that way, but will do all body work and primer in my garage.

How about some tips on dust reduction, opinions on paint vs. costs, and your favorite primer gun?

Thanks!
Steve

My 2 cents worth.
The guys here, especially Carl, on the RRT were a great help to me. Thanks!
Buy only one general purpose gun. There was conversation here years ago about a gun available at a discount mail order house. Everyone seemed to like it and the price was right. Is it still available? Apollo or something like that.
Go with the brand of paint that you have the best service with. Don't mix brands once you get past primer. I had a bad experience using PPG clear over House of Color color. My local PPG store does a super job matching colors.
Go for at least the paint booth. It will save days of cleaning in your garage and a lot of buffing. The $100 spray job may be the way to go if you aren't sure you can do it. With the price of paint if you waste a quart of the expensive stuff you could have paid the guy. The nice thing about spraying it yourself is you get to brag about it later. I still have a big head about my '33. After I won PPG's Best Use of Color at the Srpingfield MO Nats I couldn't drive the car home. My head wouldn't fit inside.

Beck

1FATGMC · February 14, 2005, 08:07:57 PM

I agree with about everything the others said.

The HF gun Don is talking about will also do a good job with the base and clear, especially if you are going to color sand it.

Personally I wouldn't shoot anymore with anything other than an HVLP gun. No overspray everywhere, except when shooting the clear. Uses quite a bit less material and paint costs a lot. And it is easy to use. I have information on the the HF one HERE .

Like a couple of the guys said everyone will ignore all the work you did and just ask who painted the car. I'm glad I had someone shoot the base and color on mine as I learned a lot by watching their technique. I've re-paintd some of the truck since and I painted the teardrop. The primer is easy as like the others said you sand it off. The base and clear is not that hard as if you make a mistake in the base you just sand that area and reshoot it. If you then make a mistake in the clear, like a run, you just sand it flat. Get plenty of clear on and color sand the car and it will look as good as anyone else can do.

I have some bodywork and painting tips that work for me HERE .

It isn't that hard to make the garage into a paint booth. Just before you paint and afte the floor and ceiling are as clean as you can get them just staple thin plastic drop cloth to all of the walls and that will cover your workbenches and tools.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is your safety. I wouldn't spray anything, and, that means primer too, inside without a supplied air system (mask, and air supply to you from outside). You can get one for less than $500. Seems a lot, but this paint now is just too bad to use with even a charcol mask, unless you change the filters ever time you use them and you would still want a lot of venilation. Buy a $50 gun and the $500 supplied air and you will live a lot longer.

c ya, Sum

kroozn · February 14, 2005, 08:48:58 PM

I am going to echo most of what was said before.

Even tho I paint for a living, I encourage folks to paint their own car and will even coach them by email.

By the time you you have primed -blocked - primed - blocked your car you will know how to swing a paint gun well enough to paint your car with a base coat paint system and to block out the runs in your clear!

If the HOK color you like is a candy color. You best leave the spraying to an old hand. You could spend a lot on money on paint and have a streaky blotchy mess! Prep has to be really sweet for candys and pearls also.

I wish the old RRT was available still because there was a lot of info in the archives.
There are a coupla of articles in the tech section Frank saved.
Need help? Just ask!
There is a lot of great help on this board.
Beck ..... thanks for the kind words!
See you on the Salt?
Carl

kb426 · February 14, 2005, 08:51:19 PM

I agree about the safety. I bought a Hobbyair II from the autobodystore.com. $450 or there abouts. There are so many things that can go wrong in painting that Id be inclined to pay the painter to shoot. You will have a couple of grand in materials. That's alot of money to risk. Absolutely don't try to shoot any catalyzed product or polyester primer without the fresh air respirator. Each body reacts differently and to different amounts. You can wreck your health in a heartbeat.

Beck · February 14, 2005, 09:53:13 PM

Quote from: "kb426"Absolutely don't try to shoot any catalyzed product or polyester primer without the fresh air respirator. Each body reacts differently and to different amounts. You can wreck your health in a heartbeat.

This is a must! I agree 100% I don't even consider picking up the spray gun without a respriator, in fact, I don't even open the paint can.

Kroozn, you helped me more than you can believe. With your coaching others thought I was a pro. Now I have guys wanting me to paint things. Only once, a buddy at work that wanted to make Sturgis and needed a wide rear fender painted fast, did I say ok. When Kroozn talks paint, listen!

I see HF has that gun for $40. Has that been the price for a while or is it a special?

Beck

kb426 · February 14, 2005, 10:34:17 PM

The autobodystore has a good forum as does one that I think is called bodywork 101. That one has a how to paint book in acrobat format. I think it will answer alot of your questions. As for the HF hvlp gun, I own one and can't say it's too wonderful. I'm not able to shoot withput more orange peel than I should have. People with more hvlp exp. than me say the lesser priced guns do not atomize the material as well. I have multiple nozzles, different regulators, and about 20 years exp. screwing around with paint. I didn't pay much but if you're looking at more jobs in the future, I would recommend you buy a better gun.

1FATGMC · February 14, 2005, 11:19:39 PM

Quote from: "kb426"As for the HF hvlp gun, I own one and can't say it's too wonderful. I'm not able to shoot withput more orange peel than I should have. People with more hvlp exp. than me say the lesser priced guns do not atomize the material as well. I have multiple nozzles, different regulators, and about 20 years exp. screwing around with paint. I didn't pay much but if you're looking at more jobs in the future, I would recommend you buy a better gun.

Did you paint base/clear with it or single stage?

What pressure were you spraying at?

I got some orange peel when painting the teardrop, but not much more than my friend (who paints for a living) got with his Sata. He used my gun some when he was painting on my truck and said he was going to buy one as he felt it worked as good as his Sata. I have the first guns that were out and they said you could use 60 psi in them. I think later they figured that it wasn't HVLP compliant at 60 psi, so then they said 40 psi was max. on the newer models. I still tell people to up it to 55 or 60 on the clear. I shoot most of my high fill primer at around 40. Now I'm not saying I wouldn't want a Sata, but you can get a good job done with the cheaper gun, especially if you don't mind colorsanding some.

I pesonally feel that the HF gun is as good as any gun you could have bought 25 years ago and people did good paint jobs then.

The following picture was done with the newer HF HVLP gun another friend, Mike, on his semi's front end.

AN OTHER PICTURE

Everybody has their favorite gun and if someone has limited finances I'd like to see them spend the bulk of it on a supplied air system than the gun.

Another thing we haven't really talked about is making sure you have an air supply that will keep up with the gun, especially if you have to shoot a big portion of the car at once.

c ya, Sum

Bruce Dorsi · February 15, 2005, 01:20:28 AM

If your garage is under your house, you need to consider that the paint/solvent fumes WILL get into the living areas of the house. ...It is also possible if your garage is attached to the house.

A local guy wore a respirator while painting. However, his bedroom is directly over the garage, and he inhaled the vapors while he slept. ....He wound up in the hospital with SERIOUS problems, and they weren't sure if he would make it.

Modern paints are much more toxic than the paints of years ago. ....Don't risk your, or your family's, health to save a few bucks.

kb426 · February 15, 2005, 08:56:42 AM

I agree with 1fatgmc. Air supply in quantity and quality is more important than the gun. I shot single stage at 39lbs. at the gun. The 2k primer had way more orange peel than it should have. I had to sand alot to even get it flat . I have a hvlp touch up gun that also is an import. I was able to do a better job on the small parts I painted than the big panels. I'm not saying it's only the paint gun, it's several factors but there's a learning curve when changing from the old guns and materials to the hvlp and urethanes.

kroozn · February 15, 2005, 11:16:41 AM

It is a fact that if you can smell paint it is hurting you!
Your skin absorbs toxic fumes while spraying too.
Painting in a Tee shirt is not a good idea.

I was told years ago that while washing paint off my hands with lacquer thinner I was giving my liver about the same amount of junk to detox as drinking a quart of booze would.

Only a small percent of a paint job on an old car is the spraying.
It is mostly the prep and the understanding what is to be done and in what order to do it.
Lots and lots of hours of sanding before you get to pick up a paint gun to put color on.
Then more hours of color sanding and polishing if you want a high end looking paint job on your pride and joy.
It is a serious commitment of time and money.
And a super straight, super shiny car, done with your own hands is something to be proud of.

58Apache · February 15, 2005, 08:39:14 PM

I bought a 3M mask at the paint & body supply store. Is that good enough for primer?

I know I need to go with the same brand name primer as the paint. So I need to decide now what brand to go with. I seen one guy had problems with House of Kolor, has anyone else?

THe HF paint gun looks reasonably priced alright, and has some optional diameter pins and parts to add to it that are stainless steel. What throws me though is that it says they are for use with water based paints ONLY. Why would that be? I am going to assume that an epoxy based primer is not water based?

Looks like they have a higher priced gun as well, but I couldn't tell the difference.

Steve

1FATGMC · February 15, 2005, 09:23:10 PM

Quote from: "58Apache"I bought a 3M mask at the paint & body supply store. Is that good enough for primer?

I know I need to go with the same brand name primer as the paint. So I need to decide now what brand to go with. I seen one guy had problems with House of Kolor, has anyone else?

THe HF paint gun looks reasonably priced alright, and has some optional diameter pins and parts to add to it that are stainless steel. What throws me though is that it says they are for use with water based paints ONLY. Why would that be? I am going to assume that an epoxy based primer is not water based?

Looks like they have a higher priced gun as well, but I couldn't tell the difference.

Steve

The primers are just as bad as anything. I think the "base" is the least bad. Just remember as soon as you open a charcol filter it is going to start it's shelf life as it is exposed to the air. When I use to use one I would keep it in a zip-lock bag when not in use, but don't know if that really helped or not. Like Carl said if you can smell the paint at all it can hurt you so if you smell the paint at all change the cartridges. A lot of the paint maunufactures now don't want you using any of their products without supplied air. Read the spec sheets on the paint you plan on using.

I think you are ok if you are in a situation where you could spray the primer outside, but if it is cold/raining and you have to spray inside I don't like seeing you do it with a mask. If you do leave the area as soon as possible.

Sometimes you see guys spraying with a mask in a spray booth. Just remember that a spray booth moves a tremendous amount of air through it.

I know that it is really, really hard to spend the money on supplied air, but belive me if you have any problems at all you are going to spend way more and hopefully you will go on to live a normal life.

What are the numbers on the HF guns you are looking at?

c ya, Sum