Power steering on the Jeepster

[GPster]

It's been a while but I read it every day. The Jeepster is basically a re-bodied a 1987 GMC S15 pick-up with the 2.5L engine. Because I set the engine further back in the frame I've had to re-work the power steering hoses. I haven't been able to control leaks at the fittings. I changed the pump to one from a '91 S10 to get a pump with the tank and fill on the pump to clean up the total package. The installation has the pressure switch in the pressure line to let the computer control the engine idle for the additional strain on the engine (?). The "T" fitting for the switch is the first component in the pump's pressure line but I've been having leaks at the 6AN 3/8" fitting at both the pump and the tee. I had a straight line made with new 6AN fittings on both ends (about 6" long)but I had leaks with it. I thought maybe there was too much vibration in the hose so I made a bracket mounted to the engine that held the hose at the point that the hose goes to metal so all of the tubing and the fitting are supported to the engine. To go one step further there is an adapter that goes from 6AN to inverted flare so I got that adapter and put an inverted flare on one end of the tube I had made and I've got leaks at the new inverted flare to adapter. I'm so frustrated with this thing that I have to ask for any ideas. Also where are you guys getting "O" rings for these 6AN fittings? I went to four parts stores yesterday and they all go to a box that has a collection of "O" rings. Two stores were out of the "O" rings of that size, one store was going to sell me a Dorman selection of "O" rings that probably only had one that might have been close enough to try. I can't believe that with power steering almost being a given, that the correct "O" ring would have a Known supply. I also can't believe that a simple inverted flare connection would leak. Let me knw if you've had problems like this and what you did to live with it. Even if it only gives me something to read. GPster

[WZ JUNK]

I have had great luck with adding a thin copper washer like gasket to inverted flares that leak.  I have not found these locally but I have ordered them on Amazon.  They are cone shaped like the inverted flare and they simply go between the two halves of the fitting. 

You can get a selection of O rings at Harbor Freight.  It is always a gamble about the quality at Harbor Freight but I have been pleased more than disappointed.

Good to hear from you Joe.

[kb426]

I use to buy the orings from any Aeroquip dealer. I'm pretty sure my local Carquest has orings because they sell fittings for hoses. My thought about the hose ends is are they all an flare or are they 45 degree. I'm sure you know but an's are 37 degree.

[GPster]

I wonder what degree the inverted flare side of my adapter is? There is nothing in the specs that says. They are supposed to fit the power steering pump on an LS to enable you to use the power steering hoses in an earlier model GM application. I just guessed that they just had standard inverted flare ends. I've seen flare seals the days I worked in refrigeration but if if there's a difference in the flare angle I don't think they'd deal with the difference. GPster

[GPster]

Well nothing is written anywhere if the adapter is made for 37 or 45 degree flare. Can't even go backwards to old GM flares on their power steering lines and find out what degree their flares are. New "O" rings fixed the leaks at the 6AN fittings on the tee with the sensor on it. Found all sorts of flare seals at McMaster-Carr but nothing to correct the 8 degree difference in the angles of the flare. Can't even find out if that's the problem. Surely there's more than two people here that know something. GPster

[kb426]

Do you have a 45 degree angle square that you could make a pattern from and at least check the male flare? One other thought: clean the oil off from the two ends and mark the male end with black marker. Tighten and remove and see what the pattern is.

[GPster]

Just because I haven't been on this site in 5 days doesn't mean it's fixed, it doesn't mean I stopped working on it either. Because I could look at the fittings and see that they were leaking doesn't mean that that was the whole problem. You can only see the leak from the side (no inner fenders) and with the pump running. I have a massive leak between the fluid resevior (plastic) and the pump itself. I'm trying to get it apart to see why but it looks like you need a machine shop to do it. So I looked on the internet thinking that I probably need to replace it as an assembly. They only show the pump by itself so I would have to find a shop to take it apart and put it back together. Taking the pump out today it looks like the flare that I thought was the problem is 45 degree so I'm thinking that a flare seal (McMaster-Carr) will fix it. It's a shame when any inteligence (sp) that one has runs out at noon. GPster

[GPster]

The local machine shop only has morning hours so they were closed at 2:20. So I went to the local NAPPA store to see if they had a machine shop. They didn't but the guy on the counter figured out how to get it apart. They don't sell the power steering pump as an assembly so even with a new pump I'd have to use the old tank ( cause I can't spell the other word) so we changed the "O" ring and I'll try it again. Everybody with an old S10 complains about how hard they steer. With the Jeepster being so light I'd try it with manual steering but I'd probably never find an idler pulley for an engine that's more than 30 years old. GPster

[enjenjo]

First off Joe I think you will find you are dealing with metric fittings They may look like Imperial fitting and they just about screw together but they don't seal. GM power steering went metric in 1980. The pressure fitting on the pump is 16mm with a teflon Oring seal.

[GPster]

First the fitting that I used is designed to go from the 16mm "O" ring seal to 3/8" flare used on older GM power steering hoses so I'd have to say that the problem is with the flare I made. Second the new "O" ring between the tank and the pump didn't stop that leak and when we had it apart we could find no cracks in the tank and we couldn't see any place where the pump was leaking. Because the obvious fix didn't work I got to thinking. Shouldn't the return side of the pump be a lower pressure? Maybe there's something wrong with the pump. There is no leak when the pump isn't running even if the tank is full. If the tank is defective it won't help me because new pumps are not an assembly and I'll have to use that tank with a replacement pump. Time to do something else. GPster/

[GPster]

I don't know what I'm missing. I removed the fitting from the pump outlet and I'm going directly from the pump to the 6AN line with the 16mm metric nut on it. The nut will not tighten the line. It's like the outlet is not tapped deep enough to let the line bottom against the "O" ring. It's like the pump outlet requires the type of nut like is on the pressure inlet of the steering box but that nut require you to use an 18mm wrench and there's no way you could get an 18mm wrench in the top of this pump. Is there another type of seal other than an "O" ring? Every diagram of the parts of this assembly just shows "O" rings at all the joints. This assembly is odd and I see no diagrams of this because the pump outlet is a solid line the goes to a tee that couples to the pressure hose going to the steering box and the third side of the tee has a pressure switch that controls the engine idle so that the engine won't stall when you're backing into a parking space. This line not seating and the leaks that it causes is probably what was going on with the old pump. Any ideas?

[enjenjo]

The O ring you need is a Teflon O ring seal

[GPster]

Thanks Frank, I know you told that before. Now all I have to do is figure out where to find one. Remember this is the town that seals "O" rings by opening a box and looking and see what's close. The internet hasn't helped yet but maybe I don't know how to ask the right question. GPster

[GPster]

Well my latest try didn't work. Tried an 9 ring that was bigger that I though might be teflon and every thing felt tight. Nothing leaked until I reved up the engine then everything leaked. I guess I'll have to go to the junkyard and try to find something with a GM stage 2 power steering pump on it that I can rob the seal out of. Of course the machine so that made my 6AN line changed hands and now they're not capable of that feat. I'm going to church. GPster

[GPster]

Could a teflon  0 ring seal also be labled as a PTFE crush washer? And asking  different question. Because I'm lacking someone to form 6AN ends on a line, how important do you think the pressure switch that is on the discharge (pressure) line from the pump? Old time (me) thought was that it told the computer to speed up the engine but there also is a warning circuit to light a light to tell you to check fluid levels? Eliminating this switch would take a steel line and a coupling/tee out of this mess. Our yearly Lions Club Father's Day Car Show is next week and even though it's only 2 blocks away (I could walk) I'd like to take the Jeepster to feel like I belong. There also is a car show in town in two weeks in connection with Hemming's Great Race. Marietta is the only place in Ohio that is an overnight stop for the race so there is a full day planned of car events. GPster