Simpler

[GPster]

Yes I'm still here! I check daily but I'm not saying too much because I tend to talk too much. The Jeepster is sitting on a 1987 GMC S15 frame and uses the S15's engine and tranny. It also uses it's power steering and had a power steering pump with remote fill. I found a different pump with attached fill on another S10 and changed pumps to give me a pump with the fill attached. Because I had to relocate the engine further back in the chassis than stock I had to raise the pump mounting higher on the engine than stock (it took three tries to do this until I got it where it wouldn't throw the belt off). Now I have a leak that looks like it may be be in the return hose or the  bottom of the fill tank (I can't tell for sure because I fell last week walking the dog and my left leg is swollen and that knee won't bend). So because of the  problems in this area and the fact that when is thing has thrown belt, I've had no problems steering with-out power I'm thinking it's something I can do without. This is a thought that comes up while I can't do anything anyway but there appears to be a lot of GM steering boxes that look the same. Anyone got any ideas of a steering box with-out power ( including old S10s) that would bolt in my frame and let me loose the power steering and pump altogether? While I'm in this think but can't do mode I'm looking for ideas. GPster

[jaybee]

Something like this?  https://www.buyautoparts.com/buynow/1984/Chevrolet/S10_Truck/Manual_Steering_Gear_Box/82-70031_R?src=pl&gclid=CjwKCAjwjuqDBhAGEiwAdX2cj0tJNu53Hh_olvFLIQZ7vAH7VbZHar35NaXtI7ej5A7VgdW3_tx2rRoCqHMQAvD_BwE

[GPster]

Thanks for the information to that site. Unfortunately my mind set goes to a time before computors where you could find interchanges of parts across vehicles and years. I  thought maybe someone would know what vehicles would have a non-power steering box that would fit in place. I have a thought that a lot GM "Metric" vehicles shared  front suspension parts with the early S10s and in my current immobile condition that information would let me shop vehicles being "Parting Out"  in the local paper or Ebay. I'm too cheap to lay out that kind of money on an idea. No better than I'm moving coming up with ideas is easier than trying to fix something. GPster

[jaybee]

That makes sense. There are interchange numbers on the page. There may be others, but I see them interchanging with

1984 S10, so any from that generation of chassis.
Jeep Cherokee XJ
Jeep Wrangler YJ
Jeep Comanche
El Camino 1984-87, so should be any manual steering A body of that vintage
Anything with a Saginaw 505 or 706 box

[Canuck]

Should find a few in this list:

GM Box Interchange

A  list of direct bolt-on boxes and some that need modifications.   (Note this list refers to Saginaw 605 Power boxes but would probably apply to manual as well.  

Interchange #706

Buick Special 64-70      Camaro 67-74          Chevelle 64-70
Chevy 65-70              Firebird 67-73        Grand Prix 69-70
Monte Carlo 70           Monza 75-79, 8cyl     Monza 78-80,6cyl
Nova 68-70               Olds 64-70            F-85 64-70
Pontiac 64-70            Skyhawk 75-80         Starfire 75
Starfire 76-80, 6 cyl    Starfire 77-79, 8cyl  Sunbird 76-80
Tempest 64-70

Fast Ratio Box: 20/1  # 7806396  Cast No. 5679142
Monza/Vega Box: 16/1  # 7819935

On some 64-70 the drag link hole on the pitman arm may need to be enlarged.

The following boxes will fit but may need to have the pitman arm and/or the rag joint changed or and extra bolt hole boss taked off the steering box. Make sure you compare the input shaft length or the length from the bolt holes to the end of the input shaft to your power box.

Interchange #999

Apollo  73-75        Omega 73-79
Chevelle 71-77       Skylark 75-79
Monte Carlo 71       Regal 73-74
F-85 71-72           Nova 71-79
Lemans 72-77         Cutlass 76
Ventura 71-77        Phoenix 77-79
Century 73-74        Tempest 71
GMC Sprint 71-77
Cutlass 73

Interchange #989

AMC Ambassador 70-2
AMC 77-80
AMC Spirit 79-83
AMC Hornet 70-77
AMC Concord 78-83
AMC Matador 71-76
AMC Gremlin 70-78

Interchange #1034

Jeepster 72
Jeep 73-83
Jeep CJ & DJ 72
Jeep CJ 84-86

List was derived from Hollander Interchange Manual

Late Model 12.7:1 quick-ratio gearboxID markings YA, WS and HX
Line Thread Size: M18x1.5 and M16x1.5
Number of Mounting Holes: 3, (missing leg H-pattern)
Input Shaft Diameter: ¾-inch
Output Shaft Diameter: 1 ¼-inch
Number of Turns Lock to Lock: 2 ½ - 3
1984-'88 Monte Carlo/Malibu with Z65 suspension
1983-'88 Malibu, El Camino
1982-'92 Camaro except FE1 soft ride suspension
1984-'87 Regal with FE2 or FE3 sport suspension
1983-'84 Hurst/Olds
1985-'87 Cutlass with 5.0 (VIN code 9)
1982-'85 Trans Am
1986-'92 Firebird except FE1 suspension
1986-'87 Grand Prix with FE2 touring or F41 heavy duty suspension



Pre-'76 12.7:1 quick-ratio gearbox
Line Thread Size: 11/16 x 18 and 5/8 x 18
Number of Mounting Holes: 4, (H-pattern)
Input Shaft Diameter: 13/16-inch
Output Shaft Diameter: 1 ¼-inch
Number of Turns Lock to Lock: 2 ½ - 3
1967-'76 Camaro, Firebird
1970-'76 Monte Carlo/Malibu
1964-'76 Chevelle


1977-'79 12.7:1 quick-ratio gearbox
Line Thread Size: 11/16 x 18 and 5/8 x 18
Number of Mounting Holes: 3, (missing leg H-pattern)
Input Shaft Diameter: ¾-inch
Output Shaft Diameter: 1 ¼-inch
Number of Turns Lock to Lock: 2 ½- 3
1977-'79 Camaro, Firebird
1977-'79 Monte Carlo, Malibu
1977-'79 Chevelle


Jeep/S-10 14.0:1 quick ratio gearbox
Line Thread Size: M18x1.5 and M16x1.5
Number of Mounting Holes: 3, (missing leg H-pattern)
Input Shaft Diameter: ¾-inch
Output Shaft Diameter: 1 ¼-inch
Number of Turns Lock to Lock: 3 - 3 ½
1991-'92 Fleetwood
1992-'95 Grand Cherokee
1984-'93 Comanche
1984-'95 Cherokee/Wagoneer
1983-'86 Bonneville
1982-'93 2WD S-10 Blazer and pickup



Manual Steering Box
Buick Special '64-70
Camaro '67-74
Chev Pass '65-70
Chevelle '64-70
Firebird '67-73
Grand Prix '69-70
Monte Carlo '70
Monza '75-79; 8 cyl
Monza '78-80; 6 cyl
Nova '68-70
Olds '64-70
Olds F-85 '64-70
Pontiac '64-70
Skyhawk 75-80
Starfire '75
Starfire '76-80; 6 cyl
Starfire '77-79; 8 cyl
Sunbird '76-80; 6 cyl
Tempest '64-70

The following fit, but have different ratios or some other characteristics
Several '70-83 AMC cars
Several Jeeps '70-86
Apollo '73-75
Buick Special '71-72
Century '73-74
Chevelle '71-77
Cutlass '73
Cutlass '76
LeMans '73-77
Monte Carlo '71
Nova '71-79
Olds F-85 '71-72
Omega '73-79
Phoenix '77-79
Regal '73-74
Skylark '75-79
Sprint (GMC) '71-77
Tempest '71-72
Ventura II '71-77

From : http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofint.htm#INT%20Manual%20Steering%20Box

 
Luckily manual steering is easy to get. The place to look is in S10 pickup trucks for a steering box for GM chassis. This will have a Saginaw 122 or 525 manual steering box. The only difference in these two boxes is the spline count for the pitman arm, which changed in 1986 when they renamed the box from the 122 to the 525. The stock ratios are 22:1 but 16:1 fast ratio boxes are available in the aftermarket.

Manual Saginaw 525
The box was renamed 525 in 1986, when the input spline on the 122 box was changed from 3/4-36 to 3/4-30. The 525 manual box was used extensively by GM. The 525 box is recommended for manual box applications on street rods, especially those more than 2,500 lbs. The location of the motor mounts often restricts the box size in street rod applications prior to '34 with modern V-8 engines. This accounts for the popularity of the smaller Vega box. The 525 boxes can be used on some pre-'34 applications with slight frame modifications. Borgeson offers a number of 525 variations, such as a rebuilt 525, a short-input rebuilt 525 with a 1-inch input shaft, a reversed rebuilt 525, a Mullins quick-ratio 525 with a 16:1 ratio versus the stock 22:1, and a quick-ratio 525 short input. There's also a Mullins 122 rebuilt manual box available with the 36-spline input shaft if required. (Borgeson owns Mullins, so the latter are available through Borgeson.)

[GPster]

Thanks guys! That is what I was hoping for. I forgot the name of that book. My friendly junk yard used to have them but they ended up in a flood. and all the pages stuck together. The owner of the yard died and it's now run by his son. There in now nothing in the yard older than 2001 and every thing that was old has been taken to the local crusher. I'll start watching the local ads but it seems the best bet will be a "84 or newer S10. I found out some where  that the only S10s with manual steering where the 4 cylinder "base" trucks. If I find one of them maybe I can also find the idler pully to keep the serpentine belt tight.  GPster

[GPster]

Well I got the power steering pump off the Jeepster yesterday.. I can't find any apparent leaks on the pump and it only leaks when the engine is running so my best guess is the leak is in the return line from the steering box to the pump fill tank. I haven't found any old S10s but I may have located a non-power steering box. The other piece I would need to find would be an idler pulley for the 2.5L motor  to hold the belt tight when I remove the power steering pump. There used to be a member that  lived up around Frank that said he had a few S10s laying around for parts. I can remember some particulars about him but I can't remember his user name. He had a farm that his wife raised some kind of exotic animals on (llamas ?). His kids were "home schooled" and Frank had dealt of a late 40s Chevy coupe to. I'd try to get ahold of him with  PM but I'd have to know his handle. Because I drove it last year I'm anxious to det it on the road for spring. GPster

[enjenjo]

There used to be a member that lived up around Frank that said he had a few S10s laying around for parts.

That would be Danny Bowles. He no longer has any of the S10 stuff. The pulley itself is available new but you would have to find the bracket.

[GPster]

I guess the simplest way is just to fix what worked. Part of the problem seems to be that the hose clamp on the return line going into the going into the fill tank was split. Secondly the return hose was looped in such a way that it could be hit by the universal joint I put in the steering shaft when the shaft was going through it's turning motion. Thirdly I have no faith in that tubing with the black rubber coating on it.  I tried multiple times to get a double flare on a piece (with a new flaring tool) and was never able to. On the pressure line of this system there is a tee for the pressure to tell the computer to speed up the engine idle if the steering wheel is turned (?).I had a new line made at a local machine shop to go between the tee and the pump and it had cracked and finally broke clear in two. Well it's back together in the original way and I may be ready to drive it again. GPster