351 windsor problem.

Roadstar · September 27, 2004, 10:20:53 PM

Well I got a really big problem with the engine in a customers car. the engine was supplyed be a local engine builder that is very credible but he is somewhat stumped too.

We fired the engine to breakin the cam. first thing I noticed was the lack of oil preasure. It was strugling to get to 25 pounds at 2000 rpm. And droped to less than 5 at an idle.

The other problem is it's not getting any oil to the top end. I mean none...dry as a bone. And niosey of course.

At first we thought it was a oil pump drive rod issue But we have since ruled that out. The dist. and the pump drive rod are fine. We even used a drill motor to drive the pump and got the same reading on the guage 25 LBS max.

so tell me if anyone knows of any oiling issues with the 351 windsors that might get over looked even by an experianced engine guy.

The fact that absolutly no oil is getting to the top end makes me think there is a blockage of some sort or it is bypassing the oil gally for the camshaft somehow...I don't know just speculating at this piont.

I was also wonering if the oil was being blocked somehow woud it not build pressure. Like is there a bypass or pressure relieve that would cause it to act like that.

Any ideas.

? I'm thinking it's coming out. one way or another

Here's a few pics. I was ready to bolt the front end togeather after the engine got the cam broke in and the tune up was all done. Glad i waited. Usually I don't but something told me to hold off till the engine was run in.

Guess I just had a hunch

HotRodLadyCrusr · September 29, 2004, 06:57:59 PM

Well 70 views and not one person here had an idea of what may have been the probelm so now that the problem was determined I thought I'd share the results here for those that don't visit/lurk on the dark side. This way if those 70 views/people check back on this post, that will be 70 more folks that can help out anyone else that might have this same issue down the road.

Roadstar stated

"Well With the advise of some very knowlageable people I was able to solve the problem in the engine I've been working on.

I was having a situation where no oil was getting to the top end of a 351 windsor engine I have in a customers brand new 36 Ford sedan I have been building. The engine was supplied be a local engine builder and when we went to fire it for the first time there was no oil pressure( well 20 lbs at 2000 RPM) and the lifters were dry as a bone, and making lots of noise.

It was sugjested that a oil galley plug was not in place under the intake and letting the oil just pour into the lifter valley.

Beatnik (MY buuddy Gus) even went so far as to post a pic of an engine with an arrow pointing to the plug under the intake manifold.

Well tonight I pulled the intake and sure enough the plug was MISSING

Going back to the Machine shop post . But the builder admits to some ofthe blame, Although stated the Machine shop removes these plugs to clean the block throurly and is responsible for reinstalling new ones.

I have some pic showing the problem and what happens to the oil when the plug is not in place.

All I can say is the HAMB has become such an invaluable resource for all of us no matter what kind of problem we are dealing with.

Thanks Ryan for this place, and thanks for everyone that takes the time to read and try and help someone out here. less than a few years ago this would not of been possible and I just can't get over how much help this place can be when you really need it.

Ok, Back to work on the hotrods everybody

First pic is what I found when I removed the intake.

No plug!!! "

Where the oil was going instead of the cam and lifters.

The plug instal. All systems GO!

tomslik · September 29, 2004, 07:26:51 PM

Quote from: "HotRodLadyCrusr"Well 70 views and not one person here had an idea of what may have been the probelm so now that the problem was determined I thought I'd share the results here for those that don't visit/lurk on the dark side. This way if those 70 views/people check back on this post, that will be 70 more folks that can help out anyone else that might have this same issue down the road.

Roadstar stated

"Well With the advise of some very knowlageable people I was able to solve the problem in the engine I've been working on.

I was having a situation where no oil was getting to the top end of a 351 windsor engine I have in a customers brand new 36 Ford sedan I have been building. The engine was supplied be a local engine builder and when we went to fire it for the first time there was no oil pressure( well 20 lbs at 2000 RPM) and the lifters were dry as a bone, and making lots of noise.

It was sugjested that a oil galley plug was not in place under the intake and letting the oil just pour into the lifter valley.

Beatnik (MY buuddy Gus) even went so far as to post a pic of an engine with an arrow pointing to the plug under the intake manifold.

Well tonight I pulled the intake and sure enough the plug was MISSING

Going back to the Machine shop post . But the builder admits to some ofthe blame, Although stated the Machine shop removes these plugs to clean the block throurly and is responsible for reinstalling new ones.

I have some pic showing the problem and what happens to the oil when the plug is not in place.

All I can say is the HAMB has become such an invaluable resource for all of us no matter what kind of problem we are dealing with.

Thanks Ryan for this place, and thanks for everyone that takes the time to read and try and help someone out here. less than a few years ago this would not of been possible and I just can't get over how much help this place can be when you really need it.

Ok, Back to work on the hotrods everybody

First pic is what I found when I removed the intake.

No plug!!! "

Where the oil was going instead of the cam and lifters.

The plug instal. All systems GO!

#1 this attitude * me off!
#2 so nobody out of 70 people knew what the problem was.maybe there's not 70 retired ford techs here...
#3 SOME of us have day jobs fixing this stuff.
#4 not all of us read EVERY post.
but thanks for rubbing our collective noses in it...

slocrow · September 29, 2004, 07:28:26 PM

Well thanks for the update. I was one of those 70 and had no ideas though I am back for the look see. Now I've learned something so thanks for the post....Frank

purplepickup · September 29, 2004, 07:37:42 PM

Thanks for the followup. If I ever build another SBF, tightening the oil galley plug is another thing to remember. Actually Chevy has a similar plug on the backside of the block and it's one of those things that some people trust that the machine shop tightens. It's worth checking cuz it's a real pain to get at after the engine is in.

I built an '83 5.0 once and there are enough things that are different from year to year that this old Chevy boy about went nuts trying to figure out what I was doing. Heck it even made a difference if it was originally built before or after October '83. It's still running great so I must have done it right but about halfway thru it I was measuring the mounts to see if I could adapt to Chevy.

I've got to admit that Gus knows his Fords and if I ever get in a pickle with one again I'll definitely check with him.

BTW Denise, I don't know if it was your intention or not but my first impression of your update was similar to tomslick's.

HotRodLadyCrusr · September 29, 2004, 08:11:36 PM

"#1 this attitude * me off!
#2 so nobody out of 70 people knew what the problem was.maybe there's not 70 retired ford techs here...
#3 SOME of us have day jobs fixing this stuff.
#4 not all of us read EVERY post.
but thanks for rubbing our collective noses in it... "

#1 What crawled up you butt and died?
#2 That's is exactly why I posted the solution... duh
#3 Fixing what? Certainly not Ford motors or you would have known the answer.
#4 Your on here and the HAMB everyday and you didn't read this question?? Yeah right. If you did read it and knew the answer and didn't post the solution, shame on you for not helping.

and if I WAS going to rub YOUR nose in something it would be pretty obvious. I posted the solution for folks to learn from it and if you even had a clue as to what I'm about that would have been perfectly clear to you.

HotRodLadyCrusr · September 29, 2004, 08:24:08 PM

Quote from: "purplepickup"
BTW Denise, I don't know if it was your intention or not but my first impression of your update was similar to tomslick's.

Why? Because I mentioned the amount of views? I did that cuz it seems there was alot of interest in the post therefore I would have thought there would be as much intereest in the answer.

30 more views in less then an hour now. Folks interested in the answer or the drama?

tomslik · September 29, 2004, 08:48:24 PM

1 What crawled up you butt and died?

your post and the implication that nobody on here gave a *.

#2 That's is exactly why I posted the solution... duh

didn't sound like it

#3 Fixing what? Certainly not Ford motors or you would have known the answer.

you're right, i don't know a * thing about cars.

as far as YOU know..

#4 Your on here and the HAMB everyday and you didn't read this question?? Yeah right. If you did read it and knew the answer and didn't post the solution, shame on you for not helping.

didn't see it on the hamb, either,hel..uh..heck, i can't read every post there fast enough to read 'em all.

btw, i'm NOT a machinist and build very few engines,hate it,so i probably wouldn't have been any help, anyway.

and if I WAS going to rub YOUR nose in something it would be pretty obvious. I posted the solution for folks to learn from it and if you even had a clue as to what I'm about that would have been perfectly clear to you.

that's why this * me off, it didn't SOUND like your normal self, but if we're gonna get into a * match,let's take it off the board.

Roadstar · September 29, 2004, 08:48:40 PM

WOW

Talk about DRAMA...This could be on the Discovery channel

Just came in from fireing the engine and all is great

65 lbs of oil pressure and no funny noises.

Not much else to add.

Happy motoring

tomslik · September 29, 2004, 08:51:16 PM

Quote from: "Roadstar"WOW Talk about DRAMA...This could be on the Discovery channel

Just came in from fireing the engine and all is great

65 lbs of oil pressure and no funny noises.

Not much else to add.

Happy motoring

cool,and i even learned something

HotRodLadyCrusr · September 29, 2004, 08:53:07 PM

"btw, i'm NOT a machinist and build very few engines,hate it,so i probably wouldn't have been any help, anyway"

Then the solution should have been of great interest to you. Not an opportunity to slame me.

enough said

Phil55 · September 29, 2004, 09:24:53 PM

Sat down to read thru the posts and yours was the 1st. I was thinking, gallary plug as I scrolled down and saw that you had already solved the problem.

There are some plugs behind the cam gear as well the often get overlooked, too. I've seen folks (racer types) drill a small hole in one of them to get more oil to the timing chain. Don't know that I'd recommend that for the street, however.

Mikej · September 30, 2004, 01:18:07 PM

Didn't know ford made motors :oops: so I didn't read the post

HotRodLadyCrusr · September 30, 2004, 03:14:54 PM

Since I like to learn just like everyone else, let me ask a question regarding this hole that needed a plug. WHY is the hole there to begin with? Is there an application where the hole wouldn't need to be plugged?

enjenjo · September 30, 2004, 03:33:43 PM

There has to be a way to drill oil galleries, so in this case, they are drilled through the lifter valley, and then later plugged to seal the oil in. As mentioned, Chevy motors have a similar plug, but in that case, the oil pressure doesn't go away, the oil just never gets through the filter, so the engine is running on unflitered oil.