60 Biscayne

[chimp koose]

One thing I have used to reduce warping is to blow compressed air on the tack right after welding . some people tape the air wand right to the mig gun , I am not that organised . The thing I have learned from IDJs posts is that I am probably doing more warping when I grind than when I weld . Never dawned on me about that before I read it here .

[idrivejunk]

I enjoy reading your explanations but you have reinforced that anytime there is heat, there made be an adverse reaction. You have made me certain that we may have warpage until it's done. The one that surprised me was the roof of the 34. When you removed the bracing I was caught off guard. Being able to use the camaro panel was great. The Ford and Chevy crowds should be able to discuss that for a long time.

There came a day, a couple years back, when that that grey 73 Trans Am was in the works, that a long time employee left. Boss says to me "Are you going to be our new whip-something-up-outta-metal guy?" Just what I wanted to hear. I have been thoroughly dipped in it since then and thoroughly enjoy it. I am glad you have gotten something from watching me learn. Each big job is another practical lesson in thermal dynamics and you can't go at it like I do without picking up some knowledge along the way.  

I believe the 34 had 3 wooden roof supports when it left. Posting pics of that thing with two jack stands on top was a proud moment indeed.

[idrivejunk]

One thing I have used to reduce warping is to blow compressed air on the tack right after welding . some people tape the air wand right to the mig gun , I am not that organised . The thing I have learned from IDJs posts is that I am probably doing more warping when I grind than when I weld . Never dawned on me about that before I read it here .

It sure is possible to create a mess while grinding. That's probably one of the best reasons to try to make decent welds in the first place, to reduce grinding. During most of my bodyman years, I cooled welds with air, too.  As I have read deeper into the long sectioning subject I have found that many authorities on the subject are strongly opposed to doing so. But I had even gone so far at times as to "steer" warpage with an air stream. Most effective usually blowing on the backside of the heat affected zone.

But now I don't do that and it does seem to work out better. You can't stare and wait to continue as much as I have without using some of that time to ponder the task. Cooling with air shrinks metal, and that approach requires caution. I find it's best, for me, to wait until cool and coax it with a slapper or hammer now. It just makes sense if you think about it. My thoughts led me to an alternate approach, let me see if I can explain it...

I wear cowhide gloves when I weld. Soon after the weld and without mashing on the metal, I sometimes lay an open, gloved hand flat on the area above the weld and allow heat to transfer into my hand for a moment, then slide the hand over to a cooler spot. Repeat as needed. Boyoboy can you transfer warpy heat out of the area fast that way! When blowing with an air hose, not only do you affect how the metal's molecular structure ends up, but it also moves heat away in an unspecific direction. The glove actually lets you grab a handful of heat and put it over here right fast if you need to. You can move the hand while in contact with the steel to drag the heat away or let the gloved hand heat up then slap it down way over there to remove that heat from the area. The thermal transfer is so quick this way, that I believe it really helps. Particularly when you raise the helmet to see oh crap I've put too much heat in that. Touching the metal works fast and can save you. Reckon I got the idea while thinking about heat transfer paste. It might be food for thought for some of you.

[idrivejunk]

Forgot to say... The gloved hand works great for grinding, not just welding.  Try it but don't burn yourself.

[chimp koose]

I get into warp trouble as soon as I try to make short welds . If I stick to tacks , good tacks , spread apart , I seem to get less warp . I mean by this I make individual tacks , spaced about an inch apart , and then skip around making each of those tacks into a  'row of dimes' (only smaller like a row of little buttons) , one tack at a time . I add one tack per row and skip to another until a last tack joins the rows . On my T rear quarter it worked well except the horizontal seam pulled in a little . I am doing this as a hobby and I have absolutely no worries about the time I am taking , unlike a job shop where my method would be extremely expensive . I do it this way to avoid metal shaping as much as possible because that's where my skills take a dive . I have done very little body work and I find your posts to be VERY helpful in getting my metal replacement done . Most magazine articles will start with a decent body and tell you which product to use to get show car results . None will show what you are doing . You should seriously consider doing a "how to do panel replacement" book some day . You have enough pictures already .

[idrivejunk]

I get into warp trouble as soon as I try to make short welds . If I stick to tacks , good tacks , spread apart , I seem to get less warp . I mean by this I make individual tacks , spaced about an inch apart , and then skip around making each of those tacks into a  'row of dimes' (only smaller like a row of little buttons) , one tack at a time . I add one tack per row and skip to another until a last tack joins the rows . On my T rear quarter it worked well except the horizontal seam pulled in a little . I am doing this as a hobby and I have absolutely no worries about the time I am taking , unlike a job shop where my method would be extremely expensive . I do it this way to avoid metal shaping as much as possible because that's where my skills take a dive . I have done very little body work and I find your posts to be VERY helpful in getting my metal replacement done . Most magazine articles will start with a decent body and tell you which product to use to get show car results . None will show what you are doing . You should seriously consider doing a "how to do panel replacement" book some day . You have enough pictures already .

The short welds thing has always gotten me in trouble, too. Just about everything I have ever posted was done just as you describe. But I had seen enough people pull off short welds that I've kept trying to get to that point myself. Some say one inch is what they get away with and that much I can't do. But I stretched out to about 3/4" this time without wrecking it. Like anything else, if that's what you do the most of, it gets easier. I have learned not to expect to be able to make anything look easy that hasn't been done in awhile.

The other thing is what the metal will allow. When putting new metal next to some that has been losing carbon atoms for a half century or more, naturally the two steels may behave differently. Most often, the old metal I still a bit rusty on the backside. All that contributes to crazy warpage so it's impossible to get perfect. On these quarters, fortunately at the cut line the metal is in decent condition so the metal behaves fairly well.

You are probably right about having pics enough to make a book. The way I think would be coolest is to make body-specific guides for that, with multiple examples. Something like that could be very helpful to others but who would buy them when there's the internet? What I do is a free and loose rendition of such, and my hope is that it helps all them who find it. But specifically I hope the folks with cars just like my jobs can use my posts to see what they are facing in repairs and offer potential repair solutions.

[idrivejunk]

Finished the wheelhouse extension but failed to get a pic of it after epoxy-







That joker is sturdy now. As previously mentioned, there were a couple areas up by the windows that were in need of repair. I did that now, while the lower patches are off to avoid trapping slag below. I'll start on the big seam next.

[kb426]

Matt, I noticed your comment on the Nebraska pic thread. I don't know if the cars are gaining but the dashes are sure common. I've been looking for a couple of years for one that was less than $100. Still don't have one.

[idrivejunk]

All the big three were experimenting with cool dashboards around that time. They are nifty. Won't you need to cut one down for um... the project?  :?:  Sounds like fab time.    

I guess this second quarter will serve as a record pass like on the salt  

Heres how far I made it today. Hard to believe this mess will look OK when its at this stage.

































Heres a bird's eye view of the lip. Pretty tough to see anything wrong with that but it does have a little dip in it. At least it I thought it did...

[kb426]

Looks good. That's a long quarter panel.

[UGLY OLDS]

Hey Matt ...Does your welder have a "stitch weld" setting  :?:    Might be easier than the "dots"  

Bob..

[idrivejunk]

KB, thanks! Looking forward to finishing and it's tough to not rush. You know how that is.

Bob, nope. It's a Miller 212 Autoset feeding .030 wire on manual settings for 18 gauge. I really have to sneak up on it for that first dot. Lots of baaarely bumping the trigger but I don't call it a dot until it penetrates. Most often it's bzt-bzzzt then a second or two of pause before bzzt up five dots or so. After tacks are an inch or less apart. It's difficult for me, the eyes ain't what they once was. Do some guys use stitch on sheet metal? I can see it if both sides are new metal such as in a manufacturing environment.

[idrivejunk]

Didn't get a pic until they was already shutting the doors, but that might work in my favor  

It went about like the other side only this time I didn't catch a warpy spot behind the wheel, out in the middle of the patch. Not sure if it happened from the seam or plug welds at the lip. It was almost hot today and that didn't help. I scaled down to three dots because five was warping it too much. I hammered around on it for an hour before starting to weld today. What you are looking at is all just grinded with a fat cutoff wheel then skimmed over with a clean-n-strip disc for looks. More tomorrow.

The plan is to be done with all this and the floors before the holiday break. The firewall will also get a shave but later. Sounds like theres a Ford project I'll need to knock out while the Pontiac is blasted and epoxied. Plenty of work, whew!

[idrivejunk]

I spent today trying to improve upon it, and I would be lying if I said I'm happy with the way it looks. It will do though. Everyone says both sides look good with all things considered, but neither side is what I had imagined. I did put little warpys along the seam but did not cave it in or pooch it out. Like the other side, theres no oil can action or flimsy spots. Glad I chose the line I did to section it on because filler should cure it although I feel sorry for that guy. He has a solid base to sculpt on at least. Little nearby dents haunted me but the spot behind the wheel lip bumped around OK. This was a challenge and I enjoyed meeting it but whew I'm ready to do some floors instead!

Here are the pics I don't like so much. Thats the trouble with having a thread, gotta show the good and bad but it keeps me honest.
















Here it looks alright. Mud men liked the looks of it, I swear.

[kb426]

I'm with the mud man.