Transmission gears/information needed

Beck · February 21, 2017, 09:37:34 PM

I bought a racing transmission this weekend. It is a Doug Nash 2 speed quick change transmission. They were later made by Richmond, and currently by Elite Racing in England. They were used in modified stock cars here.

There are 2 versions of this gearbox. One had a standard 1.6:1 low gear. The other was available with a buyer specified low gear ranging from 1.05:1 to 1.75:1. Unfortunately the one I purchased has to high of a 1st gear in it. I expected I was buying one of the 1.6:1 versions, but mine has a 1.07 ratio. Behind the gearing in the main housing is a quick change gear set in a tail housing. The QC gear set can be changed after dropping the driveshaft and removing the cover.

I am trying to find out if any of the other Richmond or other transmissions use the same gear sets. The gear on the counter shaft has a large diameter 10 spline shaft it rides on. (Bigger than a 10 spline quick change shaft) The gear on the main shaft rides on a roller bearing. The center to center spacing is 3 3/8" which is the same as the big quick change gears.

I spoke with Kajun Jon in TX about it. He has one on his bench now. He thought the gearing may interchange with something (Super T10?). He is in the middle of moving so everything is pretty well boxed up. He suggested I call Liberty Gear, which I did. They don't think the main shaft gear interchanges with anything and a custom gear will need to be made. Pricing was $600 to $660 for the pair. I called Richmond and was told the parts are obsolete. Andrews gears said, sorry.

Elite Racing in England may have the part on the shelf. I did speak with them. I expect shipping will be expensive. I would much rather deal with someone in the US. I am afraid of receiving the wrong part and then having to pay shipping back.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Or know of this transmission.

Beck · February 22, 2017, 10:08:56 AM

Elite Racing got back with me. They seem confused. There were also 2 gear drive styles available. The dog drive units were the ones with gearing options. The synchro drive units were the fixed 1.6:1 ratio units. Mine is a synchro drive, but has an overdrive ratio in it.

They are now telling me they cannot supply a different gear set. I have ask if I can swap everything on the main shaft to the dog drive style and then swap the low output ratio. I imagine the pricing for all those parts would be approaching a whole new transmission.

In my previous post I said my current ratio was a 1.074. That was incorrect. My gears are actually a 0.931 overdrive. I did my calculations with the wrong one on the drive side.

I do see a part # on the main shaft gear, so I know it wasn't a custom built part.

I am on my 8th transmission attempt for my little pulling tractor. This has me so frazzled that I am about to just sell it all and take my losses.

enjenjo · February 24, 2017, 07:41:52 PM

I had to do some digging, but I think I have some info for you.

In the 60s and early 70s Frankland made a heavy duty quickchange that used 1.25" by 10 change gears, rather than the 1.125" change gears every one else used. They were made for super modified, and late model stock racing. My little brother tells me that Speedway may still have some new change gears, but you will have to call them to find out. He also suggested this outfit http://www.panchosracingproducts.com/

In addition you might be able to have the regular change gears annealed, broached to the larger size, and re-heat treated. Moser Engineering should be able to do it.

Beck · February 26, 2017, 02:42:47 PM

enjenjo,
The gears I am searching for are internal transmission gears, not quick change gears. I do have one of the old, thicker QC sets here.
The gears I am searching for have synchro drive dogs on them. The actual gear face is thinner than even the thin QC set. One of the gears has the heavy 10 spline (bigger dia than QC) the other is smooth bored for a roller bearing. The od also has the synchro drive setup and has the smooth part where the synchro rides.

enjenjo · February 26, 2017, 03:23:55 PM

I guess I was not much help then. I'm out of ideas LOL.

kb426 · February 26, 2017, 05:23:08 PM

I went to the Elite website. They state that it can use Winters 10 spline "drop gears". Is that quick change gears?
http://www.wintersperformance.com/index.htm
I did read that there was an overdrive unit that bolted on the rear of a trans. Is it possible to change the internals from one to another so you would have something nobody was familiar with?

Beck · February 26, 2017, 07:29:42 PM

The front of the gearbox is a 2 speed manual. High gear is always 1:1. Low gear is available in many ratios. Behind the 2 speed box is an extension housing that holds a quick change gear set.

This arrangement makes the transmission a little unique. The input shaft and main shaft are not inline. There is no counter shaft. Because of this the output of the main gearbox turns in the wrong direction. The quick change gear set on the rear of the unit corrects that.

The quick change gear set goes in the rear cover. Those gears are not shown in the photo.

The gearing in the photo below would work well for me. You can see the low gear pair has a pretty good reduction. My post about having an overdrive was incorrect, I have a 1.07 gear drop for low gear.

The larger, narrower gear drives the reverser shaft.

Beck · February 26, 2017, 07:45:55 PM

Photo of the inside of my transmission as disassembled.
Notice the low gear pair on the right are nearly the same size. (27/29 teeth)
This is the pair I would like to replace nearer to something like the above post.
High gear on the left are 1:1. (28/28 teeth)
The internal heavy 10 spline shaft can be seen the gears mount to on the input shaft. Compare that to the 10 spline on the main shaft output that mounts the quick change gear.

You can see my transmission has synchros. The one in the above post has dog drive gearing.

kb426 · February 26, 2017, 08:20:30 PM

We are so in do do!

Beck · February 27, 2017, 06:17:44 PM

I spoke with a builder that changed ratios in his transmission. They took a QC gear set of the ratio they wanted and cut the width to the size of those in the transmission. They then machined the transmission gear teeth off. The QC gears were then bored to a press fit onto the remaining part of the transmission gears. The two were then welded together.

Several ceramic cutting bits were consumed in the process. The machinist suggested EDM for the process next time.

The estimated price to do it to mine was $400 to $500. If the Liberty gear quote of $660 is good I believe that may be the better route.

I saw that transmission run this weekend. It appears to be working.

kb426 · February 27, 2017, 07:01:10 PM

Is there anyway to make it possible to continually change ratios without welding the gears to the other parts? I'm thinking off an internal spline shaft to slip qc gears over on the original trans gears. I'd like to see that you can change ratios for track conditions or changes in the engine as you run this thing. One of the nice parts of Lenco's in drag racing was the interchangeability of ratios.

Beck · February 28, 2017, 12:34:06 PM

Quote from: "kb426"Is there anyway to make it possible to continually change ratios without welding the gears to the other parts? I'm thinking off an internal spline shaft to slip qc gears over on the original trans gears. I'd like to see that you can change ratios for track conditions or changes in the engine as you run this thing. One of the nice parts of Lenco's in drag racing was the interchangeability of ratios.

After changing the low gear ratio in the front part of the transmission I would still have the QC gears in the rearward portion of the transmission to modify the final output ratio.

Your idea is a good one. The smaller of the QC gears could just be re-splined to the larger size of the input shaft. The larger of the gears would need yet a bigger spline with a matching male portion put on the original main shaft gear. The width would probably need to be reduced on the mainshaft gear to allow a retainer ring.

wayne petty · March 05, 2017, 06:02:49 PM

you should have another PM.. but its sunday.. so no way to check up on the leads

as for identifying gears... members might want to review this video section.. its 6 minutes long about how to identify gear pitch and other dimensions needed

=16m7s

i did notice that Doug Nash offered both Dog gear and syncro type transmissions.. with straight cut gears that are ring retained on the countershaft like yours..

a former shop i worked at had a shop friend that made gears out in sun valley.. i saw the outside of the shop many years ago.. they as i understand made gears for indy car and other types of racing.. i googled them but i could not find any thing about them.. they were and i probably spelled it wrong.. the Gearheart gear company.. or the Gearhart gear company. i don't even know where my industrial supplier phone book is anymore.. i actually had 2 from different companies.

Beck · March 06, 2017, 09:29:10 AM

I believe I have located the gears and additional parts I wanted for my transmission. It will be a few weeks before I receive them.

Thanks to everyone who has given input.

Beck · March 21, 2017, 09:44:31 PM

wAll of my needed transmission parts, including gears, were found in England. It took a few days before my credit card company could be convinced it wasn't a fraudulent purchase. The parts took 3 days to arrive from across the pond. It took me a few days before I had the time to work on it.

The gearbox is now assembled and ready for use with the new gear ratio installed. Now if I just had the motor done...