ford holley help please

[chimp koose]

I have an 84 ford f150 w/5.8HO 4v engine . Ignition is all replaced cap,rotor ,wires ,plugs, module,new battery.Checked timing tonight and is 10degrees as per factory spec. Checked float level and primary bowl is spot on secondary a bit low.Warmed it up and checked for vac leaks with propane,no idle change.Idle mixture screws are 1 1/2 turns from seated,fresh kit in carb.I have to turn the idle speed adjuster screw in 5 turns to get it to idle. I check on my spare carb and 5 turns exposes the off idle transfer slots a bunch. 3 turns just takes the throttle blades to the edge of the transfer slots.This is a weird holley. vac secondary with idle mixture screws on all 4 corners ,the secondary ones are still factory sealed ,primaries are unplugged.they are in the base plate not the metering plate.Severe hesitation on any kind of acceleration from a stop,even to the point of stalling, requiring light tap dancing on the throttle to keep it going. Also I braved a highway trip and it started to buck and stall about 20 minutes into the trip. pulling over and letting it idle cured it . The second time it bucked ,another 20 minutes into the trip I switched tanks and it cleared up for a while. I had the fuel pump off and worked it in the vice and it appeared to work well, strong pressure while pumpingand there is no smell of fuel in the oil.This truck was parked for a few years, crap in the fuel tank covering the pickup might explain the highway issues but i am wondering about the off idle/idle speed woes.I think I will remove carb tomorrow and open the secondaries up to the idle transfer slots if it is not there already,then maybe I can close the primary side down some .Anyone have suggestions? I have heard these carbs can be a pain.

[wayne petty]

but first an article on the 4180...

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/mump_0907_how_to_understand_the_holley_4180/


can you with a cold motor... disconnect  the primary connector on the coil so no sparks can be created..

unhook the fuel fitting at the carb inlet .. or if easier.. unhook it at the fuel pump..  you probably have enough stuff laying around to install some kind of short tube section so you can place a fuel line onto the pump outlet...

extend that into a 2 or 3 liter clean clear plastic bottle...

have somebody crank for 15 seconds.. while you observe the fuel pulses from the end of the hose into the bottle...

each pulse should be nice and full.. equal in side to the others.. NOT diminishing..    about half a liter or a pint of fuel should be in the bottle after 15 seconds..

i had one 67 fairlane.. that would die if it got driven over 25MPH.. this car failed this test.. the first 3 pulses were nice.. looked great...  the 4th got smaller.. by the 6th or 7th.. it was just a drop....

when i hooked my hand vacuum pump up to the line up from the tank.. i could pump 23 inches of vacuum in the suction line...   it was not only clogged with silt. but smashed flat under the drivers foot well from misplaced jack stands and floor jacks..   i used a new universal speedo cable like a plumbing snake to clean the debris out.. pinched the flat spots with my channel locks to open them slightly and the car decided to run properly...

restrictions in the fuel supply line lower the pressure in the line.. causing any heat to boil the fuel in the line.. the fuel under vacuum vaporizes at a lower temp..

the reduction in fuel pressure to the carb also causes the fuel to vaporize in the line..

vapor lock can be caused by either...  but you knew this..

the fuel pump should hold pressure on the carb side..

it should also hold vacuum on the suction side...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

back to the 4180.. i have one on my van.. don't mess with the secondary idle mixture screws.. if you tear it apart...  just spray clean them properly..  those are a bear to get right...   much easier to deal with just the fronts..


next...    take a look at the accelerator pump levers...

on the 4180 i have on my 460 van.. i found the pump diaphragm cover worn.. so the pump lever would wobble sideways instead of transfer motion directly to the pump diaphragm..  but then

i found the pivot pin . threaded into the drivers side of the base plate was really worn.. this time allowing the longer accelerator pump lever.. from the linkage to the pump cover lever to ROCK.. so the instant motion was NOT transfered..
the lever pin for the later models is walker products 22-162
the 30 cc pump cover is walker products 85-568  i don't know if those are direct holley numbers or not..


i also found the accelerator pump discharge nozzles were clogged on one of the 3, 4180s i was messing with..



one last warning.. the carb kits for the 4180 are fairly expensive..  they use slightly different metering block and float bowl gaskets...  but i think thats covered in the article..

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/gps/96-503B/image/4/
there are  2 or 3 different versions..  one is a lot less than the others... over 50 bucks US...

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/gps/96-483B/image/4/




oh.... this section over at AZ covers the stuff from the service manual on adjusting it..    its scattered among the other carbs on this page.. but its there  and has some good info..

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c1528004b9f7


lastly... if you need a holley part or a holley part number. i have a holley parts catalog by list number..   i can at least get you a holley part number for it..

[chimp koose]

thanks wayne,I was checking the other 2 identical holleys I have and the length of the spring and bolt on the accelerator pump levers is different on all 3. I will adjust the secondaries according to the info you provided. then I will adjust the pump lever. I did notice a slight bit of movement of throttle arm before pump shot which is probably causing the off idle stumble,but when I push up and then release the spring and bolt part of the pump lever there is pump shot.

[wayne petty]

the length of the accelerator pump lever spring is different do to the difference in adjustments.. if i read you right..

there is play between the metering block and the main body and the float bowl and the metering block before you tighten the bowl screws...

this causes the pump cover lever to be at a slightly different height each time the float bowls are removed and installed..

the adjustment is to hold the throttle wide open...   adjust the bolt so there is 0.015" of clearance.. at wide open throttle..

~~~~~~~~~~~

best of luck with that.. post if you need something..

[chimp koose]

took carb off and it is polluted . throttle bores are brown where fuel comes out. idle mixture screws are likely plugged off . I am going to take the tanks out and clean them. carb is coming apart to blow everything out. hopefully thats the cure.

[wayne petty]

brown???

maple syrup?

molassas?

brown sugar?

chocolate syrup?

don't forget that a universal speedometer cable can be used as a sewer snake to clean out fuel lines.. one person with thick palm gloves pushing the cable in.. the other with a variable speed drill motor holding the core slightly tight. letting the twist of the windings pull the core in..  perhaps this is easier as i used to do a lot of plumbing ..

i have thought about using a brass tee.. to allow me to run the snake through with a longer section of fuel hose with clamps that i have snugged down slightly on the cable core. to allow me to use something like a garden sprayer to push soapy water through the fuel line while i am running the speedo cable core thru.     i don't know what's going to happen to any galvanized coating inside the fuel line.. but i bet it comes out clean...  also gives me the ability to extend the end of the rigid fuel line out from under the car.. to change the entry point for the speedo cable core..

using a battery powered drill is probably a good idea if one is going to use water ...  

not having any gasoline fumes around is a good idea as all electric drills create sparks where the brushes contact..

i realize that this may not help you... but it may help somebody else..

[chimp koose]

There is probably only6' of fuel line from the 'tank splitter' to the fuel pump ,I will probably replace it .I think I might put an inline paper type fuel filter in that piece of line too. Obviously the sintered brass one at the carb inlet did nothing to help this time.

[chimp koose]

Front tank is out. I have 1/8" of hardened rusty scale on the bottom and 1/2 way up the sides of the tank.Hammering on the outside of the tank will not loosen it.I may try a trip to the car wash to blast it out.Any suggestions.

[enjenjo]

You can buy a new replacement tank for under $100 with shipping.That might be an option.

[chimp koose]

Where ?

[enjenjo]

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQFordQQF-150QQReplacementQQFuel_TankQQ19801984QQARBF670119.html

[wayne petty]

got a friend....

got some rope...

GOT some CHAIN???

tie rope to end of chain...    tie other end of rope to 2x4 section..  drop chain into tank....   put in a few gallons of water and dish soap...

two people to slosh the chain around...

will remove most rust... so you can flush out and coat the inside of the tank...

you can use a lazy susan swivel.. mounted at an angle with a sheet of plywood  with 2x4s surrounding the tank.. and strapped down..  with some kind of abrasive stones inside the tank.. or even the chain.. this will surge them around cleaning the sides and the bottom...  kinda a rock tumbler..  you will probably want to sandwich a round plywood between two squares so you can rig a drive belt off an electric motor so you don't wear out your arm..

there is also various swimming pool acids... but then you have a whole bunch of acid to dispose of..

there is a HUGELY simple fix...  

several BIG Neodyneum magnets dropped into the fuel tank...  they will attract all the loose rust particles. keep them out of the fuel system...

look at what a 5/16" /8mm diameter version can do

a big old speaker magnet stuck to the bottom of the tank works great also...  just don't ever move it...





edit
oh... its an ford pickup.. change the tank... i thought it was something exotic.. like a cowl tank from an early ford

i guess i should have ask...

[chimp koose]

Well what I thought was rust must have been evaporated fuel.Got the pressure washer in there and blasted most of it out.Dish soap and sloshing got it pretty good. How clean is clean enough?the inside of the tank has a few 'peppery spots' but otherwise is a light tan color inside.If I throw in a few magnets would that do?A new tank is $150 here.

[wayne petty]

because i shop out at all electronics... and they sell various shapes of neodynium magnets.. i have a stack of them handy where i can get at them when i need them... i drop them into EVERY fuel tank when i have them open....

one warning...  i dropped some in a corvette C4 tank that was lined... i looked in and could not find them..   when i dropped them.. they fell RIGHT... and stuck to the top of the tank next to the opening..   strong little suckers..

i usually keep them in ring magnet shape like these..

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/MAG-133/NEO-RING-MAGNET-19MM-OD-X-12MM-ID-X-3MM/1.html

so i can actually have a chance of pushing them around if i don't like where they fell in..

you can use magnets from the small starter motors... starter rebuilders will have piles of broken ones where people have pounded on the side trying to get the brushes to contact and shattered them.. you can take them from old car heater fans.. from old radiator cooling fan motors..  even from power window motors..   speakers is also a good place for them.. if you find one that weighs more than 1/2 a pound.. you can stick it to the outside of the fuel tank..   that worked for a friend ... ended his need to keep replacing fuel filters do to clogging..   until one day he was under the van.. say.. why is there a magnet on my fuel tank.. pulled it off .. then recalled why it was there.. he made it 3 blocks before the fuel filter clogged..

[chimp koose]

thanks wayne. I have a few old crumbly speakers that I can use.