Hot Rod Magazine

[enjenjo]

I received the new issue of Hot  Rod today, and took a look at it. And after thinking about it, I say the golden age of modified cars is happening right now. It may not be as cheap as it once was, but the variety of cars, and parts available has never been matched in the past.

I also realized that EVERYTHING we use to build street rods is totally obsolete. It dawned on me that 1990 was 20 years ago. The last real OE smallblock was over 10 years ago.

Up until 1990 or so we were incorporating new stuff into our builds, and the cars were evolving. But since then, not much new is being used, at least not to the extent we used to do it.

Kind of makes me feel old.

I'd like your take on this. Convince me I am wrong.

[brucer]

i recently bought a 1994 lt1 camaro..  bought it for an everyday driver, it had a spun main bearing and a couple spun rod bearings, give $1000 for it, will have $2500-$3000 in the rebuild... i remember building a sbc for $1000 and having a 641 headed,forged piston, good running ride.

i can tell you, i would never retro one of these lt1's into a build.. the oilpump drive is weak, and the waterpump drive is a poor design, and the opti-spark is just a * poor design... I'm ditching the waterpump drive and going to an electric pump, oilpump drive i just have to live with as i'm not paying someone $150 for a billet oilpump drive and thats just for the housing, you have to buy another stock oilpump drive and take it apart and use the gear and shaft in the billet housing.. the optispark i'm going to go to the ltcc (LT coil conversion) converts the ignition to the coil per cylinder setup like the ls1 engine.

this is where i think actual hotrodders could shine, i think cars should be brought back to simplicity, easy to work on, easy general maintainance. so people can save money on repairs... so a simple everyday driver, i think will be the ticket actuallybefore this economy recovers, plus you wont have a car payment..

i think most of the new engines are way to complicated and expensive for the typical hotrodder to retro them into a build, plus i dont think there are as many hotrodders left.. the bolt-on revolution of the mustang 5.0, DOHC ford , the lt1's and ls1's  being mainly bolt-on mod engines..

To me this means the younger generation are just buying parts and
bolting them on and most are actually not doing anything worthwhile such as welding and fabricating, actually building an engine or transmission. theyre just spending money on an overpriced part and bolting it on then feeling like they have accomplished something.. when i look at some of the parts for this lt1 engine i cringe at having to buy them they are so overpriced, such as rods and pistons, camshaft, they want $500 for a set of headers,on top of that its hard to find a good automotive machine shop thats worth a crap now... most are having to shutdown because of the open a book and buy a shortblock..

makes me sick to think this country has turned into a services country and manufacturing is dying or near dead, manufacturing drove this country for decades, not anymore, that is why the economy is in the shape its in

[unklian]

.. the optispark i'm going to go to the ltcc (LT coil conversion) converts the ignition to the coil per cylinder setup like the ls1 engine.

Never heard of this, but then I never looked to far.

The stock LT1 ignition is a joke, Ford had coil packs a few years earlier,
GM mounts the distributor cap behind the water pump.    
Book time for cap and wires is 8 hours.  :x    

[unklian]

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0310htp_lt1_ignition_system_understanding_modifying/index.html

http://www.bailey-eng.com/

$400 plus buying another 8 coils.  :?

[GPster]

Must be something in the air. I can remember back in '67 helping a guy build a dirt track car for around here. AND he was a good runner. Built a rollcage with 1 1/2" Sch. 40 black iron pipe with a stick welder just like everyone else was doing.Was the first year you couldn't run anything older than '58 so people started running Chevels and wondered how they'd handle with coil springs on the rear. One group never did get it and cut the body off their old car ('57 Chev) and put a Chevel body on it Used to be you'd get a "pat on the back" for innovation but now it's for how much money you put in it. It took me a year to get over the "check engine" light on my'89 Ford Ranger with nothing wrong with it @ 133,000 mile on it. and yesterday our Jeep Cherokee with 75,000 mile on it coughed and if I take it to someone I can't even tell them what it acts like because the light went out and it's fine. The older you get the further back you can remember (maybe). GPster

[OldSub]

I was recently describing a planned build and said I'd be modernizing the running gear.  Then quickly realized that to me that mean 70s stuff because I graduated from high school in the 70s and that defines modern for me.  And all the parts I'm using are pre-1980 except things like the seats.

I think there is new stuff out there but most of it is so sophisticated because of the complexity of today's new cars that we aren't easily able to use it in our projects without first hitting a learning curve.

There are guys out there who are building with LS7 motors and 6-speed automatics and full power-train computer systems.  But those are not the builds that I'm really interested in and my gut is they cost far more than I'm willing to spend.

At 53 I'm a little younger than some of you but the constant learning required to keep up in my technology centric career has left me reluctant to dig deep into technology controlled hot rods.  My projects are my escape from that career stuff so I've worked to keep my hobby mired in the old days.

[kb426]

I tend to agree. My 32 was based on a 1999 explorer engine and a tremec 3550 trans that hasn't been produced for quite awhile. The rear is a 9" out of a Maverick. I did use eec iv efi which is 1990 Mustang stuff. When I updated the shortblock in November, I put a 3.4 crank in it. You'll have to go back years to find the beginning of that. I think there are less rules today. I see everything imaginable used. The day of the 350 350 9" appears to have passed. I'm pretty happy these days. I like the 60's trends that are real common. I like the high zoot stuff that is really a piece of work. I'm not missing the smoothy billet look so much. It was fine but just one more fad. Same for 70's paint jobs.

[48ford]

Funny this should come up now.
The youngest boy,Tim(26) and I were going over the build up on my new toy (57 ford pick up),and we are taking everything out of a marK Vll,that another boy hit a dividing wall in Detroit with.
any way,I raised the question on distributers as I was planning on using a carb and vacume advanced dizzy.And geting rid of this 'tech stuff".
Tim just rolls his eyes and stated to me , Dad thay havent put a carb on a car in 20 years,you are falling behind.
Makes you think
Later Russ

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Kind of makes me feel old.

I'd like your take on this. Convince me I am wrong.

nope , you are correct.  You are old.

[UGLY OLDS]

Frank ...Whats really driving the OE's is Emission Regulations & CAFE..  They have been madated by government to produce a better running , more efficient powertrain year after year...What we have to do is try to keep up ....We lived through an era where almost everything was simple &  easy to understand ...I still remember a mechanic ,( NOT a "technician") , trying to polarize the first alternator he ever replaced ...Yup..The smoke came out ...He was completely baffled at this "new fangled generator" ....I apprenticed with a journeyman  that could not grasp the idea of how disc brakes worked....( No pun intended) .. Our biggest problem today is all the '95 & later stuff is "packaged" & VERY expensive ...Look at the incredible horsepower they are getting out of the LS-6's or the Chry Hemi engines. We used to dream about horse power like that & now its not only done , it passes emissions & gets 25MPG !!! BUT....It's part of a "Package" ..Not just parts like we used to change ... I don't think , I KNOW technology is going faster than we can keep up with...
What REALLY scares the $%^& out of me is this title & registration stuff they are doing in Ca.  Look at the editorial in the new Street Rodder ...Page 3 shows a '32 with Cat Convertors ....Yup..Starting next year on some street rods...

Oops .... :oops:   The soapbox broke ......    



Bob.....  

[kb426]

I read a summary of the Cal. title deal. I'm glad I live elsewhere. My 32 is titled as a 2008. I wouldn't be upset about the taxing but the emission requirements would be a killer on lots of cars not withstanding the cost. I'm curious what really caused that to happen. As far as Frank being old, I think most of us are in that category. Beats dead all over the place!

[river1]

Kind of makes me feel old.

I'd like your take on this. Convince me I am wrong.

nope , you are correct.  You are old.

all right fellas we need to step up our game, it took 8 replies til we got the first smart * answer. for shame  

[jaybee]

You're right on target, Frank.  I have no problem with how someone wants to build his car.  If you prefer a banger, or a flathead, or an early Hemi, or a 350 that's great, do it.  You can certainly build a car that will cruise well or run hard through the 1/4 with a lot of parts combos.  If you're trying to recreate an era there's no substitute for an old engine.  If that's what you're comfortable working on go for it, it's your car.

If, on the other hand, you want to build a car that runs strong AND gets gas mileage AND will run forever AND you can service with parts available at any parts store there's very little substitute for the new technology.  What was a hotter setup in 1964 than the 327hp 327?  It ran hard, had an idle that made car guys drool (but no one else) needed frequent tuning, didn't last all that long, an it's a good thing leaded Premium was cheap.

Shop around a bit and you can get a 5.3L GM V8 (326ci, missed it by THAT much) that makes 315hp net for around $1G complete with wiring.  That's more like 345hp gross, the way they measured the 327.  Another $150 for to have your ECM reflashed by a reputable tuner will get you a few more hp plus delete the rear O2 sensor so you don't have to run cats and whatever other custom tuning you need for your installation.  It'll idle smooth, take you anywhere you want to go for another 100,000mi, and if it breaks down any Chevy dealer can get you rolling again.  

The same is true of the other systems in our cars such as suspension.  Big brakes, 4 or even 3 link suspensions with Watts linkages and decent sway bars and shocks would do a world of good for the road manners of a lot of old cars.

To repeat, there's nothing wrong with building a car without all this stuff, but it shows that most cars are built with obsolete parts.

[phat rat]

It may be old technology but that's why I bought the 85 dually for a tow rig. If the motor or something in the drive-line goes, I can fix it, I don't need to take it to a dealer, as it's simple and pre-computor.

[unklian]

Used to be you'd get a "pat on the back" for innovation
but now it's for how much money you put in it.

A lot of that lately, in some circles.

Innovation and imagination are not encouraged.

I guess it depends on which bandwagon you are on, or not on.