Best motor per class at Bonneville

[Beck]

I have been to the last 2 Bonneville Speed Weeks. I spent my time with the "Just Glad to be Here" team and loved every minute. I have been dreaming about building a racer for out there. I'm not ready to bite the bullet and buy parts yet, but I have thought of nothing else for the last few weeks. I have been studying the smaller sized motors.  

D is 261 to 305 Cubic Inches or 4.277 to 5.014 CC
E is 184 to 261 Cubic Inches or 3.015 to 4.276 CC
F is 123 to 184 Cubic Inches or 2.016 to 3.014 CC

I am interested in the Mini Truck Blown Gas class so it would run on event racing gasoline and turbo or blower. Those interest me because they have open records or they are soft records. I would love to eventually push the little truck to 200 mph to get into the "200 MPH Club" with Hooley. I can't afford to go exotic / big dollar so it has to be something reasonable, at least to get started.

What are your thoughts on big power motor in these classes? This is a motor that will have to live for a 5 mile or about 2 minute full throttle run repeatedly.

In the F class I would think the best motor would be the turbo Supra. It is right at the upper limit with 182 cu in. Some of the parts for this one are expensive. It is said to make 1000 hp with big boost, but I don't think it would go 5 miles at this level of power. These motors are expensive when purchased with the factory manual transmissions. I have read of one that was mated to a TH400 so someone may make adapters. The automatic motors are much more reasonably priced. There is a salvage older Supra with one of these swapped in currently on fleabay. That car reportedly has gone 165 on the street with 347 rear wheel hp. A mini truck body would not be nearly as aero though.

In the E class I was looking at the GM 3.8 blower motor. These are cheaply priced. The factory blower may not make enough power for record speeds. I think the aftermarket has quite a bit available for these. They have been used in off road buggies. This would also require a transmission adapter. The RWD versions didn't have blowers I don't believe. The alternative would be to buy a RWD motor and swap all the FWD blower parts on.

In the D class I was thinking about several motors. The easiest would be a 283 small block chevy with turbos. The new 4.8 GM might work. Someone recommended the 4.7 Mopar V8 which I know nothing about. The exotic one here would be the Northstar, which would get expensive. On the 283 would the aftermarket heads would work with the small bore . Since it has the small journal crank would aftermarket rods may be harder to find than those for the 350. I have a 283 short block available that was rebuilt with a .030 overbore many years ago and never installed. All the 283 motors had steel cranks right? The 4.8 has the new 6 speed automatic in the 2009 Silverado. How much more power does the automatic rob than a manual? I don't know how much of the bigger motor performance parts would work with the 4.8. The Northstar has a following with the buggy guys and there are some big power but expensive parts available.

[kb426]

I'm not much help but I want to throw out 2 things. The first being, you'll need a dry sump oil system. Number 2, weight is your friend. I was out there in 1992. I asked alot of questions. That was 2 things that came up repeatedly. It rained like crazy on the first evening. The next day, I spent the afternoon talking to Don Vesco while he worked on his car at the parking lot. That was one of my better memories for the car world. We talked engineering that most would be bored with. As a former racer, I would say be honest with your quest. All be cause you want it to work doesn't mean it will. Do enough research to find if there is probable cause to make enough power to accomplish your goals. Best of luck to you.

[Beck]

you'll need a dry sump oil system.

Dry sump oiling is common there, but the 974 doesn't run one.

[Hooley]

Beck, We want a dry sump, just haven't had the money to do it yet. Wet sump has worked for us.

                 Hooley

[Flipper]

I'd be tempted to try the supra motor with the manual trans (even if it is more than what you really want to spend on the front end).

[WZ JUNK]

Hooley knows someone who is making lots of power out of one of the new GM inline 6 cylinder engines.

Remember, it is not all power at Bonneville.  Hooley went better than 200 MPH the first year with a motor that had a lot of used swap meet parts.  Power is only good if you can apply it to the salt.

John

[Charlie Chops 1940]

My 4.2 I-6 Trailblazer engine is rated at 291HP at 6500. I don't know if anyone has done anything to adapt a manual tranny to one of them. Have heard little bits about guys building some real horsepower with twin turbos and no changes to the bottom end. The biggest impediments I see are the tings necessary to simplify it or keep it like it is. No one makes even simple stuff, like a header flange. And now the engine and vehicle is an orphan.

Haven't done any searching for info otherwise.

None of which should stand in the way of a young feller like you.

Charlie

[Beck]

I spent the last few hours surfing for information about 4.2 build ups. It sounds like the bottom end will only hold up to slight turbo pressures. If you want the big HP everything but the crank needs to be worked on including a resleeve of the block. It is all custom parts. Read that - expensive. It sounds like the motor will go to 1000 hp if you have about $25,000. I would guess it would hold up to 450 or so in near stock form.

[unklian]

D is 261 to 305 Cubic Inches or 4.277 to 5.014 CC
E is 184 to 261 Cubic Inches or 3.015 to 4.276 CC
F is 123 to 184 Cubic Inches or 2.016 to 3.014 CC

D, destroke a 5.3 Ford Modular motor, with 4 valve heads.

E, Subaru makes a 3.6L flat 6, dohc 4 valve,
which could be bored and stroked closer to the limit.

F, Subaru makes a 3L flat 6 with 4 valve heads.

[39deluxe]

Re: the 283 Chevy, the GM performance heads and all of the aftermarket heads are designed for a minimum 4 inch bore. 2.02 intakes will require a notch in the bore for clearance unless you run a big over bore. Even 1.94 heads will be severely shrouded around the intake valve and may need some clearance notching in the bore too. The best thing to do would be to start with a 4 inch bore block to begin with. The 283 small journal cranks are forged so a stocker in good condition should work. A 327 small journal block that won't need bored would work with the 283 crank for a 302. A .030 overbore would take you out to 306 so you would need to be careful here and try to stick with .010 or .020 over pistons at the most.

If you want to use a 350 4 bolt block there are main bearings available to put a small journal crank in the big journal block. I think Ohio Crankshaft has them. You must use a standard 283 crank. I've never found a bearing for an under cut crank. 302 pistons are expensive but you can use 350 pistons for a 6.0 inch rod on a 5.7 rod. I've been told by several people this works and with the availability of 350 pistons in every configuration known to man they are cheaper. There may be something about pin height that I am overlooking. I can't find my notes on this combo right now.

As for the 3.8 don't forget the turboed Grand National engines.

Tom

[brucer]

turbocharged slant6 or 2.3liter ford

[Beck]

brucer, I may know where there is a BIG hp 2.3 that is being replaced with a V8. Last I heard he was near 1000 hp. He had the bugs worked out. I don't know how long it would survive with a 5 mile run. I could detune it a bit.... It has me thinking......I will have to check on that motor.

I just got off the phone with one of the companies that deals with used Nascar parts. I found 2 SB2.2 motors that are complete except for the carb and headers. A used one with about 400 miles costs $11k A new one is $14.5k. These are about 360 cu in and make about 800 hp. New price on these was reportidly $40k to $60K. I can't build a 800 hp motor for that kind of money. This would put me into an unblown class that is already over 200 mph. That part scares me.

I do have a few thoughts / questions.

#1 Nascar limits carbs to 930 cfm. What would I use?

#2 These are 12 to 1 compression motors. Would it live if I put on a small turbocharger and made minimal boost? Then what would be best a carb in a box or injection? If it were injected, mechanical or electronic? Injection would probably require a custom built intake manifold. Using a turbo would put me back into the blown class which has a record of 177 or so.

#3 What is the best buy, the used motor at $11k or new at $14.5k? Nascar was requiring teams to run the motors a couple of times in the Busch series. The used motor has the miles of one race. It would take me a long time to put on the next 200 miles running 5 at a time.

My mother has the best idea, "Just forget it!"

[sirstude]

Never listen to your mother, their job in life is to worry about you.      

[ONE37TUDOR]

A used cup motor is usually still a very good engine (unless it won the race and abused with burn outs) and will give you many miles of service. Usually all you need to do is to replace the valve springs and go with it. Of course the valve springs my be $2000.

Scott...

[brucer]

if im not mistaken, i think nascar runs closer to 348ci and 390cfm carbs