Caster & Camber settings

ONE37TUDOR · August 09, 2009, 01:28:46 PM

Does anyone know if you should increase or decrease the caster and camber numbers when changing from bias to radial tires? Or does it not make any difference?

Scott...

jaybee · August 09, 2009, 03:28:22 PM

Radial tires like a tick less camber, not much toe in, and all the caster you can get.

wayne petty · August 09, 2009, 03:46:52 PM

here is something well written to increase ones alignment knowledge..

http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm

by the way... some older abused cars need to have their frames tweaked slightly to get a proper alignment...

gm A, B , F and X bodys. can be done with some not so out of the normal tools for a real hot rodder to have in their garage...

what are you doing the wheel alignment on???

ONE37TUDOR · August 09, 2009, 06:23:54 PM

I am using a racecraft caster and camber gauge to set the front end with. I don't have any degree plates and am aligning the angle parts of the gauge with the side of the car to determine the 20 degree turns.
Kind of crude I know but I have used this to set many circle track alignments. I am just trying to get it close enough to drive it for several days to work all the bugs out prior to taking it to a real alignment shop.

However, I know when I do take it to a shop they will try to set it by the book and the book for a 61 Galaxie indicates the caster should be set from 0 to 1/2 positive and I really do not feel that is enough for radial tires?
Thanks for the replies and the article.

Scott...

enjenjo · August 09, 2009, 06:33:25 PM

What Jaybee said. I would try 1 to 2 degrees pos caster, and .5 to 1 degrees camber to start.

wayne petty · August 09, 2009, 06:36:22 PM

what do you mean... they will do it by the book.... current alignment shops don't have any books that old....

you are doing the right thing..... it your self... or do like i do... when i send something to the alignment shop.... i print out the specs for them to do it to....

i write them myself...

depending on the width of the tires....

half a degree positive camber on the left side...

quarter degree on the right...

2 degrees positive caster

1/16 to 1/8 toe in... i also have somebody drive the car while i look at the front tires while it is coming and as it is going away to see if i need to make changes to the toe in...

ONE37TUDOR · August 09, 2009, 08:26:58 PM

Thanks for the help but I do have a question, Why the difference in camber between the two tires?

Scott...

wayne petty · August 09, 2009, 08:55:30 PM

keeps the car from pulling to the right from driving on the right side of the Crown of the road....

if you set them equal and drive on the street... it will drift to the right...

drag cars that run on a totally flat track need equal.. camber....

it also depends on the amount of crown... on local roads... almost all roads and freeways have got some pitch to them.. so the rain water runs off..

i should also add that most cars are aligned without a driver.. when a driver gets in the left side of the car drops slightly.. ever so slightly... i have not measured how much camber change this causes...

ONE37TUDOR · August 11, 2009, 12:27:11 AM

OK, I put +1/4 caster in the left and 0 in the right and +2 caster in both.
Car is some better but still tends to follow the low spots in the road? I guess I am just expecting to much? All the suspension parts are new and I really can't go more than +2 on the caster as the control arm mounting points will not be in full contact with the adjusting shims.
Someone suggested to try some negative caster and see if that helps so I may try to go -.5 or so and try that?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Scott...

wayne petty · August 11, 2009, 12:47:26 AM

how much steering box play is there.... any

??/

how about sway bars... stock size or over sized???//

can you describe follows into the low spots on the road?

?? are you talking about the ruts in the road??? done by studded snow tires... so there are 2 wear grooves in the road... nothing will fix that problems... except having the road resurfaced... they have been doing that on the concrete freeways here in so cal... middle of the night... huge noisy machines.. stacks of diamond blades cutting away about half an inch of surface ... leaving a nice smooth surface ... with micro grooves... and it also levels out the slabs... so you don't get the wap. wap wap wap... they might have done this to prevent the explorer tire blow outs from happening.. as the constant loading and unloading of the tires at 65 mph. might reach their harmonic frequency...

oh... back to the ford.... are the shocks mounted behind the control arm.. or through it.

? if you don't have big sway bars on it... you might see if 4 way shock company makes some of the external coil shocks that they make for motor homes and rv's... they have a captured spring on the outside... so it trys to pull back to center when extended and pushed back to center when compressed...

years ago.. a friend put them on his discoverer motor home... they helped... but i got to thinking ... if you put the spring under tension pulling down... the suspension will be harder to unload the spring on that side...

oh well i am rambling... and you are not working on a rambler...

which way does it pull when the road dips... if it continues to go to one side.. put a little more CAMBER on the other... it does not take much...

also.. how level was the area you aligned the car

did you use a laser to measure it... all four corners of each custom built pad... that goes back to the same exact spot... so the pads have to be level across their surface... but level across all the surfaces..

ONE37TUDOR · August 11, 2009, 11:09:29 AM

As I stated above this is a crude setup. I am using a race car gauge and I do not have wheel plates. I have two metal plates under each front wheel lubricated to allow them to turn easier but they are level across them.

My objective is to find a setting that works then take the car to a real alignment shop and have it set referencing off the rear axle as well to make sure the car is tracking straight.

I will try a small amount of negative camber and see what effect that has on it.

When I say the car "follows the low spots" I am referring to the fact that it requires constant steering input to keep in straight down the road. It is always hunting for a direction! The steering box does have a small amount of play and may actually not be "up on center" like it should be so I need to check that out also.

Scott...

wayne petty · August 11, 2009, 11:38:40 AM

ahh... yes... steering linkage... free play in the box...

how much in inches at the top of the steering wheel does it take with the wheels pointing straight ahead... for the wheels to react to your input before they react...

what?

with the wheels pointing straight ahead... reach through the window with your right arm... move the wheel back and forth tiny amounts... increasing until you can see the wheels start to move... if you have over ... maybe in inch or inch and a half of play. that is almost too much already...

at that point.. its time to get somebody to work the steering wheel back and forth... with the wheels on the ground... while you look for movement in the steering box... see if the input shaft in moving in and out .... see if the pitman shaft is rocking in the lower housing...

the big nut on the steering box can be loosened... the threaded insert screwed in a little tighter to remove the in and out motion of the input shaft... when you turn it... do not back it off as you might loose the bearing balls into the box...

after you get that checked.. or adjusted..

do the pitman adjustment.. this is the eyeball type adjustment... and HAS TO BE DONE with the wheels pointing straight ahead...

loosen the nut... holding the set screw in place... back it off a few turns...

reach down and start rocking the steering shaft... watch the pitman arm... tighten the adjustment slightly... rock the input shaft... you want the adjustment to just remove any slack between the movement of the input shaft and the reaction of the pitman arm... if you over tighten it... remember.. the pitman shaft gear is tapered... and you are adjusting its lash.... you want it to just touch the sliding part without forcing the sliding part overly tight against the case...

you also have to hold the set screw while moving the lock nut down tight and locking it down...

i know that you know how to do this... but there are a lot of people still learning....

enjenjo · August 11, 2009, 12:37:37 PM

How much toe in do you have. Radial tires are very sensitive to too much toe in, and in most cases, 1/8" is too much.

ONE37TUDOR · August 11, 2009, 05:27:31 PM

Right now I have it set at 1/8" in but have planned to go to 1/16 and try that?
I know I have other issues with the geometry of the suspension as I have 2" dropped spindles and also run shorter springs.

Scott...

enjenjo · August 11, 2009, 07:17:30 PM

Quote from: "ONE37TUDOR"Right now I have it set at 1/8" in but have planned to go to 1/16 and try that?
I know I have other issues with the geometry of the suspension as I have 2" dropped spindles and also run shorter springs.

Scott...

On some cars I have used a bit of toe out, about 1/16", to cure your problem.