Hey AMC guys! 327 questions

[Gambler]

Long time no see! Glad to see the board is still going strong.

Ok here's the deal:

did a frame up shadetree resto on my 68 J3000 jeep truck..has the AMC 327 in it. Popped the fuel pump and (as expected) found A LOT of slack in the timing chain. Been comparing part numbers and whatnot, seems later AMC 360 era timing chains and crank timing gear sprockets interchange, (5/8th wide at least) but not the cam sprocket. I want to get a steel cam gear..looks like Kanter is the only source for that....

BUT..

first I need to get the dang balancer/pulley off. Its a one piece setup. Unlike other crank snouts, this one is hollow a few inches deep. Any ideas on getting this off safely? The rubber is still good on the vib. damp. so I dont want to mess it up. And I need to get this off before ordering parts.
Thanks for any help, part numbers, advice, etc. I need to use Paypal for parts so been looking at Ebay offerings..pretty much just Falcon. They offer a timing chain kit that doesnt specify whether its the steel cam gear or a nylong replacement. Guess I could ask them..
Ryan in SW CO.



I have a reconditioned 4 barrel intake ready to slap on there, and a double pumper 700 cfm. Would rather find the 380 cfm 4 barrel carb for it but using what I have.

[wayne petty]

i was wondering is the small holes in the pulley face are threaded...


if so a harmonic balancer puller or a straight H bar puller would do....


if they are not threaded....    can you get behind it with some nuts? to go on the bolts that you are sticking through....

if all else fails...       and there is no room....

how about bending some long grade 8 bolts with the head cut off...  using the threaded end through the puller....   (think of a battery hold down hook... but thicker... )

i don't know where my 60's books are right now... but when i get back in a few hours... if you dont have an answer... i will dig them out...

[Gambler]

i was wondering is the small holes in the pulley face are threaded...


if so a harmonic balancer puller or a straight H bar puller would do....


if they are not threaded....    can you get behind it with some nuts? to go on the bolts that you are sticking through....

if all else fails...       and there is no room....

how about bending some long grade 8 bolts with the head cut off...  using the threaded end through the puller....   (think of a battery hold down hook... but thicker... )

i don't know where my 60's books are right now... but when i get back in a few hours... if you dont have an answer... i will dig them out...

they are in fact threaded. My TSM calls for a special tool of course.. They just seem really small. And the hollow crank snout frightens me, most pullers I've seen want to push against the tip of the crank snout...I have a hole.  Luckily its forged not cast in these engines I guess at worst I could stick  something steel between the puller tip and the crank that the crank hole would clear.

[Gambler]

looks like Kanter is the only place that sells the CAM gear..45 bux.  :cry: I am assuming that mine would have the original aluminum/nylon one that needs replacing, but..need to crack her open to tell.

[wayne petty]

i dug through a bunch of boxes... only found the 71 motors manual... they show pulling the balancer bolt, pulling the pulley.. then the water pump and cover...

i would try a stud with a washer and nut in each hole ... tightened up on the front of the pulley to keep them straight.. then a bar type puller.. with the crank bolt in.. with out the washer...  that stops the puller from digging into the crank snout and balancer bore...


autozone does show the timing chain kit... for 36 cocos...

looking at the timing chain diagram... the dots go center to center like a small block chevy... the crank keyway should be 45 degrees to the right of center...   i did not notice where the cam key is... only where the drilled marks line up....   oh... and to make it easier... i looked in the amc section of the book.. but the 64 book was too old...for jeeps...   the 71 motors was too new but did show the 327 amc motor...

http://www.jpmagazine.com/index.html

here is a pic of the timing gears lined up..

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/5433_choosing_jeep_cam/photo_03.html

[Gambler]

thanks for the info Wayne!!

Well the story went..grabbed a harmonic balancer puller for 14 bux...TWANG snapped it. Made a 1/4 thick bar to slip behind the snapped part..and popped out a small chunk of metal from the threaded hole on the right  

Looking at my diagram I think I forgot to pull a flywasher that must be embedded in there..just the bolt and lock washer came off first, doesnt LOOK like theres another washer, but there should be one with a cork washer behind that (all on the front side of the pulley)..so tomorrow I'll poke again at it. Chinese crap they sell these days...

I do have a spare 327 if I end up mangling this vib/pulley, but hopefully it'll work out then I can get into the timing chain parts.

[wayne petty]

sometimes they are on tight...  some times not......


here is a picture of a factory 360 amc v8 tool....

found it on page 383 of this 500+ page pdf file....

http://oljeep.com/JeepEngines.pdf

i am thinking that looks like a pipe flange...     with a nipple in it... and a bell reducer on top of that...     a piece of all thread through that... double nutted on one end... and a nut wedged into the pipe nipple and held down by the bell reducer...  or maybe even welded in place... so you can tighten the all thread and that pushed against the crank snout...

[Gambler]

sometimes they are on tight...  some times not......


here is a picture of a factory 360 amc v8 tool....

found it on page 383 of this 500+ page pdf file....

http://oljeep.com/JeepEngines.pdf

i am thinking that looks like a pipe flange...     with a nipple in it... and a bell reducer on top of that...     a piece of all thread through that... double nutted on one end... and a nut wedged into the pipe nipple and held down by the bell reducer...  or maybe even welded in place... so you can tighten the all thread and that pushed against the crank snout...

wow thanks for looking. Oljeeps pages are great! Unlike 360s, the 327 pulley is shared with the vib balancer.  I've had the pleasure of pulling those too on my 401..not fun either.

I'm hoping that I missed a washer and thats whats holding it on against the puller rod..otherwise I'm half tempted to toss in the 401

thank you for your searching!

[wayne petty]

here is even more.. on the amc/hudson 287/327

http://jubileejeeps.org/327/tsm/index.htm   this one has motor info...

http://jubileejeeps.org/327/index.htm this is the front page

[Gambler]

here is even more.. on the amc/hudson 287/327

http://jubileejeeps.org/327/tsm/index.htm   this one has motor info...

http://jubileejeeps.org/327/index.htm this is the front page

thanks! Flint's actually a friend of mine up the road  I have a factory 72 reprint TSM that covers everything, sadly besides listing the jeep tool needed for pulling it, doesn't go into more detail.

[wayne petty]

looking at the first picture.....     did you knock off the balancer retaining bolt washer..  right in the center.....   i cannot imagine that it is welded on... i think the undercoating it holding the washer in place....   if you are pulling against that ... no wonder it seems to be on tight...

the tool specified looks like the flanged tool i posted...

i still think that a pipe flange with some nipples may be strong enough to pull it...


what is the center to center spacing on the bolt holes?    

what size are the threads in the bolt holes?  

what size is the crank bolt???  use an open end wrench over the threads.. to get the sae size...

[Gambler]

looking at the first picture.....     did you knock off the balancer retaining bolt washer..  right in the center.....   i cannot imagine that it is welded on... i think the undercoating it holding the washer in place....   if you are pulling against that ... no wonder it seems to be on tight...

the tool specified looks like the flanged tool i posted...

i still think that a pipe flange with some nipples may be strong enough to pull it...


what is the center to center spacing on the bolt holes?    

what size are the threads in the bolt holes?  

what size is the crank bolt???  use an open end wrench over the threads.. to get the sae size...

I cant answer all that right now because I am taking a sanity/lunch break.  I cant get that dang washer off to save my life. There's perhaps a few millimeters if that of a lip behind it, too small for any claw type puller. Soaked it in PB Blaster..I have a small nail puller I may try to pound in there to pop it off. I'm half tempted to take my grinder to it, and try and match a steel washer to it later on at this point. I'll post up after my next try.

[Gambler]

Got it off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  That flywasher looks different IRL compared to the drawing, makes sense now. My beefed up pulled slid the dampner off no problem afterwards.  Now onto the timing..I emailed Falcon on ebay and they affirmed their 63 dollar timing set came with a steel cam gear and chain..which isnt a bad deal considering the only other place I can find cam gears is Kanter at 45 alone for the gear (chains are 20.60 there) so it evens out.

Thanks for your help Wayne, kept me motivated and from throwing tools

[Gambler]

lucky me..looks like someone changed out to the steel cam gear..just the chain is really sloppy with over the 1/2" deflection on both sides (almost an inch on the pass side alone). So looks like just gaskets and a new chain are needed.

I know this is relatively minor stuff but it sure doesnt seem many people are tearing into AMC 327s much anymore..just happy to keep the old beastie running.

[tomslik]

i guess it wouldn't occure to me to replace JUST THE CHAIN.
the gears wear too....

but it's not my ride home....