double pass radiators

[348tripower]

Anybody know anything about these? Would it help the hot problem I have with my Stude? The largest radiator I can put in this without major modification is a 19x24. I have a 19x22 in it now. I would go to the double pass if it has an advantage.
Thanks,
Don

[C9]

Are you sure your overheating is due to the radiator?

What kind of engine are you running?

[El Jefe]

Are you sure your overheating is due to the radiator?

What kind of engine are you running?

C9, you're thinking full manifol vac, etc?

[wayne petty]

dual path radiators and triple path radiators run the coolant back and forth through the radiator .. this allows it to be cooled off more..

in some applications this will help..  

questions exist..

what is it doing now??     do you have proper cooling system pressure..  13 to 15 psi... some caps were assembled wrong.. little flapper disc is not held up with a spring.. it flops until the pressure forces it up...   not a good thing....

do you have any combustion leaks into the cooling system...    i totally insist on using hylomar on every aluminum headed motors head gaskets....

how much grill opening  do you have...   some cars that had license plates attached to the grill will overheat do to the plate deflecting the air flow..

is the area between the grill opening and the front of the radiator sealed...

most of the oems in the mid 70's  started using rubber flaps behind the grill to force the ram air through the condencer and radiator..  look under a late 70's cad..   every thing held together with push type retainers...

i use rubber/vinal black grooved hallway runner to replace these ..

i take it that you studebaker was not equipped...

remember the seals on the top of many core supports ... this also sealed the  core support to the hood to keep ram air into the radiator.

i have a magnehelic? pressure gauge... used to measure air flow in commercial heating and a/c ducting..   i got this long ago... my sisters bottom breather 85 trans am  actually had lower pressure in front of the radiator at speed above  58 mph...  put on a new air dam and the pressure in front increased and the overheating problem above 55 mph stopped...

incorrect temp thermostats can also cause problems...
as the stat may open at 160  and there may not be enough temp differntial to remove enough heat from the water...

the stat keeps the coolant circulating in the block through the bypass ...

through the pump...  back through the block,   up the back of the heads... forward through the heads.. into the forward coolant passage where the thermostat is..  if the stat is closed..  through the bypass hose and back into the pump to go around again...    the bypass hose is smaller...  to there is pressure buildup in the block do to the speed of the flow..   more pressure higher boiling point of the coolant...    3 degrees F per pound of pressure...  under extended heavy loads.. the exhaust ports and combustion chambers can reach 300F... this is above the boiling point of many coolants...  this is why nascar systems... that use water... have 30 psi  caps...

oh... without a stat... the coolant is free to circulate at  high speed through the radiator...      this does not let the hot coolant stay in the radiator long enough to cool it off...    ever tryed to cool a stream of hot water coming out of the faucet..  or blown on a spoon of hot soup...  

on big tank radiators without a stat.. there can be enough pumpped pressure to expand the top tanks until the swell and the soldier breaks..

this is where aluminum welded radiators are better... no weak joints to push agenst...

what else....

invest in a non contact temp gun...  harbor freight had a long  wand version that goes to 1100F   much more than the little pistol shapped ones.. and 10 bucks cheeper...  


so.. i know that i have not answered your question exactally.. but i hope that you  understand more....

wayne....

[enjenjo]

Just for a comparison, the radiator in my Marlin with a 462 BBC is a three core brass 16 by 20 with a 5 blade fan, and no shroud. no heating problems if the system is full, even on a hot day in traffic.

[phat rat]

Don, my son was running a 383 powered Jeep on the dunes at Silver Lake and always had a problem until he went with a double pass 2 core aluminum radiator. When I replaced the 396 with the 454 I went with a 2 core triple pass aluminum and haven't had any problems since. It's triple pass because of being an upright rather than cross flow.

[348tripower]

Don, my son was running a 383 powered Jeep on the dunes at Silver Lake and always had a problem until he went with a double pass 2 core aluminum radiator. When I replaced the 396 with the 454 I went with a 2 core triple pass aluminum and haven't had any problems since. It's triple pass because of being an upright rather than cross flow.

Jack,

Thats what I was looking for. A experienced answer. What range stat are you running in the 454?
It also seems to have a vacuum leak in the intake. When it warms up this strange whistle begins. I sprayed stuff on the intake and I think I have located it. It is very small, but it would add to a lean condition and heating.
Don

[phat rat]

Don, my son was running a 383 powered Jeep on the dunes at Silver Lake and always had a problem until he went with a double pass 2 core aluminum radiator. When I replaced the 396 with the 454 I went with a 2 core triple pass aluminum and haven't had any problems since. It's triple pass because of being an upright rather than cross flow.

Jack,

Thats what I was looking for. A experienced answer. What range stat are you running in the 454?
It also seems to have a vacuum leak in the intake. When it warms up this strange whistle begins. I sprayed stuff on the intake and I think I have located it. It is very small, but it would add to a lean condition and heating.
Don

Running a 190 stat.  We also had the radiators built locally.

[348tripower]

I am bringing this up again with a progress report.  I was able to fit a 91x24 double pass radiator in the Stude. The initial road test showed favorable results. I let it idle and heat to 210 degrees. I took about a 2 mile drive and it cooled to 175 degrees with the air on.  
I don't have a shroud on this yet. I am going to add one soon. Maybe Sunday. I will have to make one or modify one as there is not a lot of room in this thing.   I hope this will cure the high heat at idle situation.  I am running a 160 stat and may change to a 180.  I would like some feedback on that.

[Leon]

Some engines like a little warmer stat.  I wouldn't run a 160.  

The big advantage of a multi pass radiator - even though the radiator path is reduced in cross section, the water runs faster through it for twice as long.  The increased speed causes turbulence which ensures that all the water comes in contact with the tubes which helps heat transfer.  If the water moves too slow it can run in laminar flow which allows the center flow to continue in the center and not transfer heat.  That's why high flow pumps help, the turbulence created ensures all the water comes in contact with surfaces for heat transfer, both in the engine and radiator.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

this does not help the problem here,

A friend had the Ron Davis aluminum radiator company build a rad for a little track T car.

We asked about a triple pass rad IF that would kool better.  I get this comment: " I don't know" from the counter help.  So I asked for some one that would know .

the counter guy then tells me : " we just build radiators to your specs"

So I ask : " is there any person in the building that knows your products and engine   cooling?"

I walked out after I got another stupid answer and let the car owner deal with them.  I'll never be back to the Ron Davis shop.

[Leon]

I have several Ron Davis radiators and are very pleased with them.  The Quality is very good, and the people I have talked to have been very helpful plus they held to their estimated delivery time or gotten them to me sooner unlike a different shop in Glendale that tried ripping me off with a radiator that leaked and too 6 months to build.

[C9]

Are you sure your overheating is due to the radiator?

What kind of engine are you running?

C9, you're thinking full manifol vac, etc?

Yes I am.
The great majority of hot rods I see that overheat at idle and low speeds are running electric fans and a mechanical advance only distributor.

And . . . I admit to being a bit of an evangelist about this, but it's hard not to be when you can cure a car that overheats after 5-10 minutes in summer traffic by simply swapping to the manifold vacuum source.

True with my roadster.

Yesterday, 98 degrees here.
I ran around town in late afternoon with the engine temp at 188*.
Entered the In & Out Burgers line, temps got to 200* and stayed there.
When I left after close to 15 mnutes in line, engine temp had creeped up to 205* due to a couple of shutdowns due to people ahead making orders that delayed things.

This with a 1985 era Walker 4-core radiator that went into service in 1993.
180* thermostat with one 1/8" hole drilled in the flange to vent any potential airlocks.
17" Hayden 6-blade fat blade stainless fan.
Shroud, but I'm not sure it helps a whole lot in my car, runs ok without it.
Trans on its own dedicated coolers.
Liberally louvered hood top and sides.

[wayne petty]

here is a link......

down below the adobe icon are a few pdf files that explain theory about automotive radiator design...

after reading that ... you will probably know more than......


http://www.mne.psu.edu/Webb/RAD_and_PLATE.html


and for those who want to just download and read it later...

http://www.mne.psu.edu/Webb/Heat%20transfer%20fundamentals.pdf

http://www.mne.psu.edu/Webb/CORRELATION%20MENU%20CHOICE.pdf

http://www.mne.psu.edu/Webb/PRINCIPLES%20OF%20LOUVER%20DESIGN.pdf

http://www.mne.psu.edu/Webb/Balance%20point%20calculation.pdf

http://www.mne.psu.edu/Webb/Coolant%20velocity.pdf

http://www.mne.psu.edu/Webb/J%20AND%20F%20CURVE%20FITS.pdf


oh.. and this may also save a few trips to the junk yard... and many hours looking at cooling fans in cars... to see what fits...

http://www.dormanproducts.com/catalog/OESolutions2006/397-419RadiatorFanAssemblies.pdf

it is only 336mb...

[2rods]

What year Stude and what engine?