So much for the biofuel plan

[Entoman]

tomslick wrote
i'm getting the feeling that YOU don't have the grasp.
it's that little "nitpicking" that makes a difference..

Hmmm, I really don't think that I need to respond here

Tom Slick wrote
it's 2000 gm 5.3 and don't EVEN tell me how you "studies" tell you it should get better milage.
OBVIOUSLY you don't deal with altitude drivability issues.
now, if it were a flex-fuel vehicle, you MIGHT have a leg to stand on...

There is a big difference between mean increase and the range of responses.   Yours (and I am assuming that you have conducted a standardized trial that makes all inputs as randomized as possible and keeps biases such as a predisposition about how the results should be out of the trial) would be classified as one data point out of many.   Once many many points of data are collected, regression analysis would be conducted to determine a trend of whether GPM increases as Etoh content is increased or whether the GPM decreases.  If you examine most any scientific study the collection of data rarely produces a nice clean graph that in every instance trends the same direction.  
If anything your GPH at altitude should increase if my feble understanding of chemistry and physics is correct.  But rather than rely on intuition, I defer to experimentation.  Your results may vary, but overall, experimentation found that mileage will increase on non-flex fuel injected vehicles ON THE AVERAGE.  To get that average there are vechicles that increased a lot, some would even show decreases.  My car increased....but mine is only one data point.  As a scientist I would never determine a trend from only one point of data.  Statistically I would need many points and would be able to assess how well the regression reflected my data from the accompanying r2 value.

lets see, in an overly simplistic calculation, if you accept that Etoh has about 60% of the heat value of gas, and you are running a 10 percent blend, then the gasahol you are burning should have a heat value of about 96% of straight gasoline.  Just to use a car with a straight gas miles per gallon of 30 mpg, using heat value alone and ignoring other factors you should get about 96% of you original mileage.  Calculated you would get 28.8 mpg....if you got 10 mpg on straight gas then your drop should only be 0.4 mpg....
In the real world things aren't this simple, but rather your mileage may increase, or decrease....only experimentation will tell


I didn't originally challenge your statement about declines in mileage, I said that yours might not reflect the overall trend as determined in this study.  Heck that study might be in error....it has happened before, that is why in science studies are replicated before much stock is put in their reliability

Wayne Pettys statements about the catalytic converters are probably dead on.  So I won't comment

However, nobody is forcing you to buy Etoh blends above 10%, There is talk about increasing that to 15%.  But nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy E-85, However if gas continues to increase in price and E-85 is competitive in price, then I have no problem buying it (once I switch to a flexfuel auto)  I do however want the option.  I am sick and tired of having only one choice for fuel.  diversification will make these guys recognize that they aren't the only game in town and will be beneficial for all of us.


Oh one other point I forgot to mention in my previous posts.
Using corn for Etoh production, (while not the most efficient method of producing Etoh...Sugar cane is much better, But we cannot grow it in much of the country),  corn is not used up, nor is is wasted.  DDG and WDG  dried distiller grains and wet distiller grains respectively are excellent feeds and organic sources for food and other commodity production.  The amount of feed stock that enters the distillary is reduced to about 1/4 its volume by the time it leaves, but its feed value is increased over straight corn.  So the impact on the food industry is not as great as one might think.  
Another thing, I just don't understand how keeping grain prices low helps farmers? Farmers here in IL go broke when corn is below $2 a bushel.  and their input costs keep going up.  Corn prices up until the last couple of years had been stagnant.  Only by increasing yields many farmers were able to keep afloat.

Geeze, I gotta stop this.
I don't want to attack anybody, I just want to decry some of the misinformation that is being preached to us...
 
anyhow I'm through....back to your regular programming....
Doug

[Mikej]

Carnut, see what happens with a little alcohol.  Bob, A food shortage in this country would't hurt. Less corn sweetners would be a good thing. If we all lost weight, we would use less gas.  If we used the alcohol in beer and whiskey to fuel our cars, we would also lose some weight. Better gas mileage. Can I run for president on this platform?    I'm not going to convince anyone that ethonal is great but $5 corn is better than $1.50. No matter how you look at it, it is produced right here in this country which is a good thing. If you don't want to use it, don't.  
 This is a good topic.
How about alittle more global warming its been alittle cold here in Iowa.

[Carnut]

ya, know, if everyone is really worried about global warming melting all the ice and raising sea levels, I would think someone ought to be working on building * all around Florida.

[rumrumm]

I would think someone ought to be working on building * all around Florida.

Someone should build lesbians in Florida? How can--OH! OH! You mean *! ROTFLMAO!

Sorry, I find humor in everything!

[Carnut]

I would think someone ought to be working on building * all around Florida.

Someone should build lesbians in Florida? How can--OH! OH! You mean *! ROTFLMAO!

Sorry, I find humor in everything!

Heh,heh, yeah, I realized the error shortly after posting it, but I figured 'what the hey' lets see what responses it will get.