Daily driver question, 2.0L Ford

[jaybee]

My daily driver 2000 Contour has developed a sudden case of the no runs.  It cranks and acts like it wants to fire until it floods.  There is no backfire either through the intake or exhaust, and a shot of ether down the throttle body didn't get so much as a brief attempt to start.  Here's what I know;  No check engine light or driveability issues except that it started hard the last time before I parked it, next time it wouldn't start.  The fuel pump is working and the injectors are firing.  The timing belt is intact and not due for a change for about 20,000 miles.  Plug wires physically appear sound but I haven't yet checked resistance.  I pulled a plug wire off the coil pack and cranked the engine.  It shows a spark but that doesn't mean it's sparking every time as it should.  At this point I'm leaning toward an ignition problem.  Can the coil pack/ignition module be bench tested?  I'm also going to try a different battery, I've heard of cars that won't even jump start if the battery goes bad because the electronics act up.

[enjenjo]

Check the coil. they tend to carbon track , shorting to ground, and cause just the problem you are having. watch the coil while someone cranks it in the dark, and you will see it arc to ground.

[wayne petty]

i also agree .. look at the  coil output...


it needs to be able to throw a 3/4 inch spark...  when late model coils go bad the high voltage out put gets less and less..until it just wont start any more....

this image is a spark output voltage tester...

you can crank it open to see how much voltage your system is putting out...

on dis systems it is important to hook the clip over the coil terminal and plug with wire into the end... they are waste spark systems ... so you dont want to disconnect just one wire... the extra voltage may try to feed back through the primary taking out the module or ecm...

if you can tell which 2 outputs are together ..  use a spark plug wire directly to the end of the is unit and the clip on the other term...

in conventional single coil systems   hook the gator to ground...

i almost posted a simular thread last night.. but i did not have any pics ready...


this just replaces the pull the coil wire off and away test so you dont get shocked...


and az usually has the best price on coils..

[jaybee]

Hmmm, no visible spark to the outside of the coil, but I'm still verrry suspicious of the coil pack.  One of the coils throws a spark that's very white, a little bluish.  The other one sparks in a distinct orange-red color.  Seems like that ought to signify a difference in voltage.

[wayne petty]

like i said.. the internal windings do break down killing them...

there are two complete coil in there.. so one could work just fine.. and the other not....
there is pic....

be glad.. the v6 motors in those us a mitsubishi dizzy with an internal coil... those short out also.. killing the motor..  and guess what.. many dizzy rebuilders just put in used ones. ...  swapping poarts from cores around... till they get spark..  i actually found a company that makes the replacement coils... and some are available through standard ign.. but not every part number.. dizzys are also over $400 for those.. and dorman gets $300 for them ...

and anybody with a honda.. do not buy a reman dist..    go to honda and buy a lower housing..  usually under $150 .. change the coil and ignitor over and it works again.. the rebuilts are cobbled together inside ... at least the ones i have seen... and they are less than half the price of a reman... the lower housings have all the electronic pickups and wires..

hope this helps somebody...

[jaybee]

Yep, that's the part...and yet it isn't.  I got a spark tester (they're cheap at $7.41) and one side of the coil only put out just over 10,000v reliably, the other still had a strong, reliable spark at 30,000...but it still doesn't start.  It acts a lot like a slipped timing belt.  Next I'm going to check to see if the cams are timed properly even though there's no sign of a broken cog and it isn't due for replacement.

[wayne petty]

be sure to do a compression check also.. some of those small motors eat piston tops when an injector clogs up or the egr port gets clogged ....


you might also ohm the spark plug wires while you have them off...

200K ohm scale... the number on the display should be less than the legnth of the wire in inches...if it is still good...


display says..   012 or 12    wire is 18" o long. it is ok...


display says..  058 or 58    wire is 18" long it is bad...


1,000 ohms per inch is the  break point...

[Jbird]

I was gonna suggest the slipped timing belt yesterday. I had a similar problem with a Contour a few years ago. A used car dealer sent me two Contours one had a blown head gasket and the other lost some teeth on the timing belt, he was too cheap to fix either of them so they went to the auction then to the dismantler. I'd think a slipped belt would set a cam position sensor code, of course if it won't run it won't set any codes..duh,,
Good luck   Jbird

[wayne petty]

oh... by the way.. i sort of missed a point.. maybe i did not describe it..

it takes 30k volts plus to start a car... ... the 10Kv side is defective worn out..  ... looks like the coil is like 75 bucks...over at az...  

do check the timing belt alignmnet .. and the compression like i said


here is a link that has online for contours up to 1999...

http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm

oh... i just had a peek ... at the online manual.. have you got the twin cam version...    there are no timing marks on those sprokets..  only on the crank..    there are not even any keyways on the cams..  you have to use  a bar that is shimmed up across the back ends of the cam shafts to reset the cams......    oh joy...  this is for the twin cam motor..  got a single cam motor?  ... there is complete info for the 99 version  there...free
here is the direct page for the timing belt for the dual cam motor


http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1b/c6/93/0900823d801bc693/repairInfoPages.htm

[kb426]

Wayne, you told me enough that I don't need a twin cam contour engine. I had my heart set on one for my go kart.

[wayne petty]

they would make a great go cart motor...  infact ford sells hot versions...  they car called ztec or  something like that...


you just have to have the proper tools..  and when it is done.. the cam timing is exact...  on both cams within .025 of a degree...  try that with anything else...  this is what is done on diesel rabbit motors...

i have changed these belts before without taking the valve cover off.. buy carefully marking the cam sprokets.. and the crank sprocket.. the cams like to jump when installing the timing belt when the motor is at tdc#1...


the poeple that have killed these more than likely have driven them with the motor pinging..    OH what that noise..  ill ignor it and it will go away... if it gets too lound.. i just turn up the radio.......

[jaybee]

It's the twin cam version.  I changed the timing belt once.  The back end of the cams have slots.  At TDC compression stroke for cyl. 1 the slots line up with each other so you can slip a piece of bar stock to hold them in place, and a timing mark on the crank sprocket lines up with another mark so you know everything is in position.  Sounds simple, except that the exhaust cam has variable cam timing so the cam and sprocket can rotate independently from each other to an extent.  I had to take the freakin' belt back off three times before I got it timed properly!  Next time I'll fab a little gadget to hold the sprockets so they can't turn.  You can buy one but no more than I'll use it I can make one just as easily with a piece of sheet metal and 3 or 4 long machine screws.  Thanks for the link to the replacement instructions.  The 2000 is basically like the earlier engines (at least in the valve gear) except for the addition of variable cam timing and, I'm happy to say, is no longer an interference motor.

[jaybee]

"it takes 30k volts plus to start a car... ... the 10Kv side is defective worn out.."  I didn't come right out and say it but I did replace the coil when I saw it was weak on one side, but it didn't fix the problem.  No regrets, that coil would have left me stranded pretty soon and it might be to blame for the car being a little hard to start in very cold temps.

[wayne petty]

hmmm... time to dig deeper..


and the cheep home made twin cam belt sprocket holding tool in a nut, a bolt , and two washers that are big enough to fit between the sprockets about an inch and a half apart   this locks one sprocket agenst the other so they cannot turn

[jaybee]

hmmm... time to dig deeper..


and the cheep home made twin cam belt sprocket holding tool in a nut, a bolt , and two washers that are big enough to fit between the sprockets about an inch and a half apart   this locks one sprocket agenst the other so they cannot turn

Ah, that's even easier.  Good tip.