Another Fine Mess

midnight sun · December 01, 2007, 07:09:54 PM

Hers just one picture of what I came home to the other day after being gone for a day and a half. The water line to my swamp cooler gave way. It froze last year and I had a smaller mess. It gave way right next to where the plumber repaired it. What you cant see is the floor has sunk about 3 inches almost the entire area of the shop. Insurance agents and investigators will be out Monday.

Merry Christmas!!!!

enjenjo · December 01, 2007, 09:40:10 PM

That could ruin a whole week, let alone a day. Any damage to the Hot Rod?

Bugpac · December 01, 2007, 09:45:04 PM

How much water was on the floor, straingly odd it sunk 3", If it did it was either not compacted, or it is washing away thru some hole....Concrete is my real job...

wayne petty · December 02, 2007, 12:14:35 AM

sorry it broke... at a friends house up where mom lives in washington state he had to run some lines... he ran them in abs drain pipe wih wide radius bends... there was room for insulation and heat tape over the copper tube.... and the way he set it up it would leak out without ruining anything...by following the abs... just a thought...

midnight sun · December 02, 2007, 12:15:58 AM

Quote from: "enjenjo"That could ruin a whole week, let alone a day. Any damage to the Hot Rod?

No damage. Apparently the sheet rock hit pretty flat on the deck lid and the cover pretty much kept the water out.

Actually Im counting my blessings. We were suppose to be gone another two days but my back was bothering me so we came home early. Could have been MUCH worse.

midnight sun · December 02, 2007, 12:34:58 AM

Quote from: "Bugpac"How much water was on the floor, straingly odd it sunk 3", If it did it was either not compacted, or it is washing away thru some hole....Concrete is my real job...

When I first opened the door there was at least 3-4 inches of water on the floor. There was a huge crack that was kind of in a circle taking up about 2/3 of the floor. It was sunk down about 2-2 1/2 inches. It sunk at least another inch today. Im gonna move my 48 body and chassis out of there tomorrow. Its sounds paranoid but its like a giant sink hole is forming inside my shop. Im afraid its gonna just open up and swallow the 48!!
Heres a picture from the outside.

enjenjo · December 02, 2007, 01:05:41 AM

Sounds like it wasn't constructed to begin with. If the fill had been compacted properly, it would not settle when it got wet.

Bugpac · December 02, 2007, 08:31:11 AM

I agree, How old is it?I can see the outside settling, as the sand can easily wash out, the inside is encased in block and generally the sand has no were to go, so it has to be going down, intern compacting itself...

PS, What the hell is a swamp cooler?

Dumb question, But i really do not know, LMAO

enjenjo · December 02, 2007, 09:51:41 AM

QuotePS, What the hell is a swamp cooler?

A type of air conditioning that pulls air through a wet screen to cool it. Works pretty good in a dry climate. Ineffective back here with humidity.

rooster · December 02, 2007, 01:50:23 PM

Quote from: "midnight sun"Hers just one picture of what I came home to the other day after being gone for a day and a half. The water line to my swamp cooler gave way. It froze last year and I had a smaller mess. It gave way right next to where the plumber repaired it. What you cant see is the floor has sunk about 3 inches almost the entire area of the shop. Insurance agents and investigators will be out Monday.

Merry Christmas!!!!

Sorry for the loss. If your building was new I could see this happening to your floor. It happens quite abit around here this year because of the lack of water( ground shrinking, drought). If your supply line broke and was running a gong time , the water would spreed to the out side primiter of the foundation where the footing was dug , it collected the bulk of the water where the footing was back filled and probely not compacted. The floor probly floats on the ground in the shop, if not supported be rebar tieed into the foundation I would expect movement. Mudjacking may bring your floor and outside walk back into shape, its done alot around here. Its costly and not garanteed.
I wouldent worry to much about a sink hole unless your garage was built on top of a dranage or storm water pipe.
This year I had to remove and reinstall the door jams on 3 doors of the house, the front door would not even lock. Good luck.

wayne petty · December 02, 2007, 11:07:54 PM

mud jacking ... thats sort of what i was thinking of...

and falling in to a sink hole...

seen that here in a friends shop built over the top of a huge sewer line... the shop floor collapsed into the sewer taking cars and equipment into the hole.. but i the sewer was big enough to swallow rollaways.. i had a pic somewere..

do you have a concrete drill.

? or a coring drill??? something you could drill a few holes in the floor with to test for washout???/???

perhaps several holes large enough to pump some cement slurry into ...........

GPster · December 03, 2007, 09:30:57 AM

Quote from: "wayne petty"seen that here in a friends shop built over the top of a huge sewer line... the shop floor collapsed into the sewer taking cars and equipment into the hole.. but i the sewer was big enough to swallow rollaways.. i had a pic somewere..

This brings to mind the story of a '57 Plymouth that ran here not long ago. By the way, I think that Ram Jack is the trademark name for the concrete pumping they're talking about. We have a local company that has that trademark name added to their company name and they jack fallen basement footers for house restorations. Try the "Yellow Pages" under water-proofing,basement. GPster

midnight sun · December 04, 2007, 12:21:03 AM

Quote from: "wayne petty"mud jacking ... thats sort of what i was thinking of...

and falling in to a sink hole...

seen that here in a friends shop built over the top of a huge sewer line... the shop floor collapsed into the sewer taking cars and equipment into the hole.. but i the sewer was big enough to swallow rollaways.. i had a pic somewere..

do you have a concrete drill.? or a coring drill??? something you could drill a few holes in the floor with to test for washout???/???

perhaps several holes large enough to pump some cement slurry into ...........

For now Im gonna wait and see what the construction contractor says. He initially said "Mudjacking" but I told him that will be my last choice. He even admitted that they could not guarantee it nor could they promise that the floor would be level. Im gonna call the guy that initially poured the floor and we'll see what he says both about why he thinks the concrete sank and what can he do to fix it.. Also checked today to see if the actual building had settled . Its settled less than an inch so the trusses must be doing their job. The concrete has settled almost 4 1/2 inches now. Just cleaning a lot of stuff right now with WD-40. Most of my handtools that were in the toolboxes are okay. Welder, drill press, belt sander, grinder and a Saginaw 3 speed tranny and associated bell housing and pressure plate are questionable. The humidity was really high so some stuff got rusty just from that. Insurance adjuster is suppose to come tomorrow.

1FATGMC · December 04, 2007, 10:31:04 AM

Quote from: "midnight sun"For now Im gonna wait and see what the construction contractor says. He initially said "Mudjacking" but I told him that will be my last choice. He even admitted that they could not guarantee it nor could they promise that the floor would be level. Im gonna call the guy that initially poured the floor and we'll see what he says both about why he thinks the concrete sank and what can he do to fix it.. Also checked today to see if the actual building had settled . Its settled less than an inch so the trusses must be doing their job.

Wow sorry to hear about this. Tell us some as to the original construction. Was the floor poured on original grade?? Was fill brought in?? Was there a layer of gravel under the concrete??

Is there a perimeter footing/stem wall?? Was the floor and footing/stem wall poured separately or as a monolithic pour??

Were they tied together with re-bar as in the picture??

I don't want to sound negative, but I don't see any way they could get the floor back level with mud-jacking and then would it stay there. Maybe good enough for a garage, but not for a shop where you want a near level floor to work off of. Some how it has to be stabilized where it isn't going to sink anymore. Maybe the best bet is more water under it and encourage it to sink until it won't sink anymore. Then pour a new floor on top of the old one. It would probably only have to be a couple inches thick around the edges where the sinkage hasn't happened.

If I did this I would also have them pour a higher stepped up lip around the edges so that if you ran water on the floor it wouldn't want to go out under the walls, but would be directed to the door. You can see an area like that to the right in the picture above where the floor was dropped so that water can be put on it while painting a car.

The trusses didn't hold the building up, the walls did and since they are probably on a stem wall and footer they probably didn't settle much. Unfortunately the only way to fix it and make sure it is fixed would be to tear the floor out and compact the area good and re-pour a new floor. Of course that is going to be the most expensive and I guess it would depend on who would have to absorb that cost. I would make sure the insurance guy doesn't just look at the building as a place to park a car.

Chances are the water deal will never happen again. We don't get enough rain out here to get under the floor like what happened.

The best of luck in getting the problem solved,

Sum

midnight sun · December 05, 2007, 12:43:41 AM

Quote from: "1FATGMC"Wow sorry to hear about this. Tell us some as to the original construction. Was the floor poured on original grade?? Was fill brought in?? Was there a layer of gravel under the concrete??

Original construction consisted of bringing in fill dirt and building a pad to eleveate the shop to the same grade as my house. Then a layer of gravel was brought in before the concrete was poured. Rebar was used sparingly and some type of fiberglass matting was also used.

Quote from: "1FATGMC"Is there a perimeter footing/stem wall?? Was the floor and footing/stem wall poured separately or as a monolithic pour??

Monolithic Pour.

Quote from: "1FATGMC"I don't want to sound negative, but I don't see any way they could get the floor back level with mud-jacking and then would it stay there.

I agree completely. I've talked to qutie a few guys who all say the same thing. You cant get a level floor with mudjacking.

Quote from: "1FATGMC"Unfortunately the only way to fix it and make sure it is fixed would be to tear the floor out and compact the area good and re-pour a new floor. Of course that is going to be the most expensive and I guess it would depend on who would have to absorb that cost. I would make sure the insurance guy doesn't just look at the building as a place to park a car.

Im going to hold my ground as long as I can. Im sure the battle will be with the insurance company/adjuster. Initially Im going to push for actually jacking the whole structure and have them tear out the entire floor, muck out the mud, backfill with pit run gravel and then rebar and repour it. I know its gonna be a fight and Im not even sure you can raise a building thats slab on grade but I guess Ill find out. If not then Ill go with the option you mentioned. Tear out the existing floor as much as possible and repour. The last thing I want, as you mentioned is a wavy floor. I want it like it was before the damage. Level and Smooth.

Thanks for the input.