Sheering Lug Studs.

[msuguydon]

Serious question, now that I have sobered up from my day as a bad boy.

What might be the cause of a lug stud breaking like that?  Just a bad lug, do they fatigue and crack, or is it the side effect of another problem.

Please give me your thoughts.

I am going to have my friendly mechanic replace all the lug studs with a uniform size, the bigger the better.

[Dave]

Serious question, now that I have sobered up from my day as a bad boy.

What might be the cause of a lug stud breaking like that?  Just a bad lug, do they fatigue and crack, or is it the side effect of another problem.

Please give me your thoughts.

I am going to have my friendly mechanic replace all the lug studs with a uniform size, the bigger the better.

Don.. Normally the only thing that would brake em is a loose wheel and in your case thats behind the steering wheel    They would all have to be loose and usually the wheel falls off.. Maybe the previous owner had a big * impact or breaker bar and messed em up that way. Ive never don that though.. Whats the deal with the different sizes ?
Dave

[msuguydon]

Serious question, now that I have sobered up from my day as a bad boy.

What might be the cause of a lug stud breaking like that?  Just a bad lug, do they fatigue and crack, or is it the side effect of another problem.

Please give me your thoughts.

I am going to have my friendly mechanic replace all the lug studs with a uniform size, the bigger the better.

Don.. Normally the only thing that would brake em is a loose wheel and in your case thats behind the steering wheel    They would all have to be loose and usually the wheel falls off.. Maybe the previous owner had a big * impact or breaker bar and messed em up that way. I've never don that though.. Whats the deal with the different sizes ?
Dave

The different size fasteners issue has been a re-occurring theme with the TUNA boat. One example, we removed some bumper brackets, some of the bolts were fine threads some course. etc, etc.

When I bought the car, I asked the owner why he was selling, he explained that his grown son, mid 30's had returned to the house, with his children due to a messy divorce, the owners mother was also living with them.  He said he needed money now that he was raising his grand children.  I tell you all of that to tell you this.

I think in the beginning he was taking his time and doing things right and proper.  When he made the decision to sell the car, he did things fast and not so proper so he could get it on the road, so some dope like me would come along and buy it from him.

Another horror story about the Tuna Boat. (Never shared this one)  For the first couple months when I drove it, when I made a hard corner the car made a pretty awful rubbing/screeching noise.  I made a conscious decision to ignore the noise as I was having to much fun with my new toy.  When ROOMAN was fixing my steering box, he showed me that someone had ground the ends off the A-Arms, with a grinding tool.  After the steering box incident I took my car to the mechanic to go through the front end.. What did he find... lots of bolts missing, bolts not of the proper size, no lock washers etc.  He also confiscated my car and would not let me drive it.. why

Take a look at the ends of one of the A-Arms... I kept them as a reminder of what not to do...





The source of the screeching noise was the A-Arms hitting/rubbing the back side of the wheels, the previous owner had purchased the wheels with the wrong offset so he ground the A-Arms to make room.  SOO my friendly mechanic says.. the car stays right here until we replace the A-Arms... guess what was in one of the boxes of parts that came with the car... another set of A-Arms... things that make you go HMMMMMM

SO I get him the other A-Arms and he explains that he will get spacers so the wheel will not hit the A-Arms. Not the best solution but certainly better than grinding the ends off.  When he buys the spacers he discovers that the lug studs are of different sizes on each wheel... He tells me... I am gonna let this go.. but you have to promise to come in this fall and have all new lug studs put in.... So that my friends is the rest of the story.

[kb426]

The last story makes me want to disassemble the whole car to look for more surprises.

[msuguydon]

The last story makes me want to disassemble the whole car to look for more surprises.

How would you like me to ship it to you  

[Charlie Chops 1940]

The studs on your car should all be 7/16 diameter. There are longer and shorter studs available. A good parts store will carry Dorman products. I like to use a stud that was originally for pre-64 Poniac Tempests. Long enough to allow spacers for offset adjustments yet short enough that they won't interfere with hubcaps, etc.

I don't recall the spline size so make sure he reviews that in comparison to the existing hole when he pops the old studs out.

He will likely know this but just want you to know that the spline diameter on same thread size studs are not all the same.

Charlie

[rooster]

Pop the broken one out and measure the knurl, should be around .545 or so! Auto zone has a good selection around here. I had to get mine from speedway because of the extra length needed in a project I was working on.

[unklian]

The last story makes me want to disassemble the whole car to look for more surprises.

Bingo.  

[enjenjo]

Back when I was working on trucks, we had a rash of broken wheel studs. Not something you want to see with an 80,000 lb truck going 60 mph. When inspecting trucks, I got in the habit of tapping each lug sideways with a hammer, and would have several that would break off with just a tap, every day

This as you might guess raised alarms among our engineers, when you have 40,000 trucks in 50 states. So a reason, and solution had to be found.

First we had the broken parts analyzed to see if they were the proper materials, with correct heat treatment, they were, so that was not the problem, we had to look elsewhere. It was decided that installation procedures would be checked next. At the time we installed lug nuts with a 1" impact wrench, tightening them in a star pattern. When checking recently installed wheels, we found a big variation in stud torque. So a real world test was needed.

We had access to an accelerated wear test loop, where 1 mile of travel equals 10 miles on typical roads. The wheel torque was specified at 450 ftlbs. so the lugs were torqued accurately from 100 ftlbs to 900 ftlbs on various wheels and recorded. Then the vehicle was run on the test track. Strange as it seems, in 1000 miles, no wheels actually came off, but when we removed the studs and had them analyzed, the studs with low torque showed microscopic cracks that were the beginning of failure. The low torque was allowing the studs to bend repeatedly as the wheel turned, causing catastrophic failure. The conclusion was that improper installation with low mounting torque was the problem. New procedures that included torquing each lug with a calibrated wrench, and oiling the threads,  eliminated the problem.

There are several methods used to hold the wheel to the hub. Some wheels are hub piloted, with the studs just holding the wheel to the hub, some are stud piloted, with the studs not only hold the wheel to the hub, but keeping it centered too. Then there is the knockoff type that uses one nut to hold the wheel to the hub, and splines to keep the wheel centered, and keep it from turning on the hub. Any of these can fail if improperly installed. If changing from one type of wheel to another, make sure it is installed properly.

In addition, not all lug nuts are equal, there are at least two mounting face angles used on lug nuts, make sure the nuts you have, match the hole angle in the wheels.

With mag wheel nuts, make sure the nut threads on at least the diameter of the stud, but is not so long that it protrudes past the rear face of the wheel, or bottoms out on the threads.

[wayne petty]

i just spent a bunch of time going through every stud application that dorman has online... only 2 will fit if you have a shoebox chevy

anybody can get more data from dormanproducts.com

the 610-025 is the correct for the front wheel

the 610-041 is a little longer. at 1-3/8

there are several numbers with smaller diameter knurling .020" smaller and .020 larger . since they are not close enough without drilling i will not list them.




and the  direct links

https://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-bin/vm91corp30r/item-dtl.w?sid=0x007f4863&item=610-025&icrid=&clt=hwrap1&vsrch_str=610-025&vsrch_brand=ALL&vsrch_cat=ALL&st_amount=&end_amount=&start=&vfrom=&prev=&vnext=&category_list=:0


https://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-bin/vm91corp30r/item-dtl.w?sid=0x007f4863&item=610-041&icrid=&clt=hwrap1&vsrch_str=610-041&vsrch_brand=ALL&vsrch_cat=ALL&st_amount=&end_amount=&start=&vfrom=&prev=&vnext=&category_list=:0


here is the arp wheel stud download
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Catalog/Catalog.PDF/ARPCatalog_0066.pdf

[Dave]

Wayne ......... What else do you do
Dave      

[C9]

More than likely you wouldn't have enough material to drill and tap, but if you did - or drilled the axle flange to the same or different pattern - tapping them is an option.

The pic shows how Dutchman does their axles.
Aside from taking forever to screw them in and the same with lugnut's for steel wheels, not a bad way to do it imo.

Remains to be seen how they'll do in actual driving.
So far the car's a roller and the engine only makes 'vroom-vroom' noises.

It's getting there.
Picked up a beautiful aluminum radiator for it yesterday.
Along with a few other interesting parts.

Just need to quit playing with the 32.
It's back together and running on it's new front tires.
Skinny radials that look like bias to an extent.

I like the look, not sure about the whitewall though.

I had the same thought that Enjenjo did on overly long mag wheel lugs.
Easy to do with some combo's.

Along those same lines I strongly recommend using a Centerline 3/16" thick mag lugnut washer.
Whether Uni-Lug or not (the oval type that doesn't rquire adapters) although the Uni's are the worst at coning in the washer, torque values go down and the hole get's wallered out as Cowboy Bob says.

The thin washers supplied with mag lugs are best used elsewhere.

To that end, a wheel I'm converting will get either a stainless or aluminum flange in place of the washers.
More on that later.
Probably do aluminum first cuz I have 3/16" and 1/4" aluminum in stock, but need to order some stainless.

[C9]

Whoops.... :oops:

[wayne petty]

hmmmmm...wow it just hit me...

do you still have factory hubs and drums on the front

if not... what year or model are the hubs or rotors.......

[C9]

hmmmmm...wow it just hit me...

do you still have factory hubs and drums on the front

if not... what year or model are the hubs or rotors.......

Me . . . or what's his name?