still getting temp creep, now what?

[t-vicky]

A walker radiator for 34 Ford is about 22" high X 18" wide. You are stuffing all that air thur a 16" round hole with fan blades in the way? Dont sound like max air flow to me.

[Rayvyn]

Being as how it's a sprint car motor, did you do a pressure and leakdown test after it was put back together?

How about going to a smaller water pump pulley to speed it up a little. Maybe at highway speeds, the water pump may be restricting the flow a little bit.

It could be the radiator and shroud are working fine, but the fluid is staying hotter before it gets to the radiator because of 'slow flow'.

Just guessing here...everything else was covered...My 2c worth...

[EMSjunkie]

A walker radiator for 34 Ford is about 22" high X 18" wide. You are stuffing all that air thur a 16" round hole with fan blades in the way? Dont sound like max air flow to me.

very good possibility, but.......thats why I put the shroud on, it was creeping without one too :?

water flow is a good possibility, may hafta look fer a smaller pully

timing chain was new when we built the motor.
I put a timing light on it , static = 10*  advance = 32*

put new head gaskets on it a while back. I changed the heads about 6-8 months ago. when I originally built the motor, it was for my sprint car.
after the "big accident" I put some 76cc heads on it, before I put it in my coupe. when I put the new intake and crap on, I put the 461 heads back on.

the Mrs. and I took it to town last evening, ran about 190* without the fan on at hi-way speeds. I guess I'm just gonna hafta keep driving it, and see what happens. but I did notice an intermittent miss again, * blockhugger headers have eaten another set of plug wires :x
I'm about ready to pull the * motor out, tear it down to bare block, and start all over :!:  I have a set of rams horn exhaust manifolds I could use......  but I gotta go get a T-bucket frame in August, so I better save my pennies.

Thanks for all the idears and suggestions fellers, I really do appreciate it    

Vance

[CQQL33]

the NEW version shroud has the rubber "flapper" doors covering the vent holes in the shroud...At idle,when the fan turns on,the little "flappers" get sucked against the back of the shroud to cover the holes & force the air to be sucked through the radiator core.....at speeds the flappers can open and keep the air from impacting inside of the shroud and slowing down the air flow through the radiator.    If your car doesn't heat up at idle, with out the shourd, then I would leave it off.....   If the fan is close enough to the radiator to draw enough air through it at idle, then you should be able to operate without the shroud and have good cooling while driving down the road at highway speeds..............Good luck.

[CQQL33]

Hey Vance, are you using antifreeze with your water ?    A 50-50 mix will help as the boiling point is higher than just using water and further it will transfer the heat better through the radiator.......just a thought.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

A buddy of mine has a 38 Willys coupe... 283 + .040 over.  mild cam.

he has seen heating problems for years (15) with the car. Custom radiator, he thought the heads were cracked ( never changed them), extra radiator under the rear of the car with fan

the past year he swapped the 38 steel front sheet metal for a 41 Willys steel front... A fresh 355 motor ( way more engine!).. cross flow radiator , related stuff changed too, body work and paint on new front metal.

11k $$ later the car drives nice now. Lots faster too.

[Leon]

Anti freeze will raise the boiling point, but does not transfer heat better.  This is from the Stewart Components website: "UNEQUIVOCALLY WATER IS THE BEST COOLANT! We recommend using a corrosion inhibitor comparable to Prestone Super Anti-Rust when using pure water. If freezing is a concern, use the minimum amount of antifreeze required for your climate. Stewart Components has extensively tested all of the popular "magic" cooling system additives, and found that none work better than water."

[GPster]

I've read the sugestions and would like to throw a couple more ideas your way. You said you haxe a Walker radiator on it that was designed for a '32, was it designed for A/C? Is the A/S condensor Walker or another after market? Even if you don't have the A/C on the condensor it could be blocking air flow. The Street Beast grill shell on the ads doesn't appear as open to me as a stock '33, '34 and airflow being what it is possibly positive pressure between the grill shell and condensor. for lack of a better example the front end of a '33, '34 is more like a funnel than earlier models and maybe the easier course of air flow at speed is to part at the grill shell and travel along the outside of the hood sides. I would think if something like this is the case that it might be more of a Street Beast problem than a SBC or '33, '34 problem or Walker radiator problem. Is there a Street Beast owners site? They might lead you in a different direction. Also you might try having the refrigerant charge evacuated from the system and pulling the condensor out and seeing if the difference in airflow chamges the problem. GPster

[EMSjunkie]

I've read the sugestions and would like to throw a couple more ideas your way. You said you haxe a Walker radiator on it that was designed for a '32, was it designed for A/C? Is the A/S condensor Walker or another after market? Even if you don't have the A/C on the condensor it could be blocking air flow. The Street Beast grill shell on the ads doesn't appear as open to me as a stock '33, '34 and airflow being what it is possibly positive pressure between the grill shell and condensor. for lack of a better example the front end of a '33, '34 is more like a funnel than earlier models and maybe the easier course of air flow at speed is to part at the grill shell and travel along the outside of the hood sides. I would think if something like this is the case that it might be more of a Street Beast problem than a SBC or '33, '34 problem or Walker radiator problem. Is there a Street Beast owners site? They might lead you in a different direction. Also you might try having the refrigerant charge evacuated from the system and pulling the condensor out and seeing if the difference in airflow chamges the problem. GPster

Thanks Joe, I appreciate the info, something to think about.
actually the Street Beast grill is very open. it is 1/4" square bar with about a 3/16" or bigger gap between bars.
the radiator came from Speedway. it is listed in their catalog specifically for the "CMC" 34.
I have a flame pattern cut into both sides if the hood sides to vent heat.
I dunno if there is a Street Beast owners site. never thought about that.
the A/C system is not charged. I need to get a couple hoses made up first.

Y'all keep the idears coming, I'm gonna get this figgered out :!:  :!:

Vance

[EMSjunkie]

Hey Vance, are you using antifreeze with your water ?    A 50-50 mix will help as the boiling point is higher than just using water and further it will transfer the heat better through the radiator.......just a thought.

prolly more like a 20% antifreeze mix with a jug of Redline "Watter Wetter" added.

Vance

[GPster]

One more theory (that I worked on between 2:30 and 4:00 is morning). What is the RPM of the engine when ths problem arises? The speed of the water pump increases with the RPM of the engine. At higher RPM the water pump may be moving the water faster than the radiator is capable of cooling. I have a friend that did some SCCA racing with a Corvette in the early '70s. His "Track Tool Box' HAD A SLECTION OF METAL PIECES THAT LOOKED LIKE FENDER WASHERS (cap lock). They were actually restricter plates to be used instead of thermostats in the colling system. He raced one track that had a long straight away and the car would overheat on that straight away because the water was going through the radiator soooo fast. And this is with a water pump that had holes drilled in every blade of the impeller. I started thinking about your problem a week ago but I couldn't see/type. I wondered then if your radator was being overwhelmed and the only way I could think to check it was to have some type of thermostat  at the water pump inlet to see what temp was going back into the engine. It didn't seem like it was worth the trouble to mention it.  Maybe you could just make a restricter plate and install it in place of the thermostat and see if there is any differance. GPster

[EMSjunkie]

Interesting Joe, I was thinking the same thing. I used to use those restrictor plates in my stock car / sprint cars. I still have an assortment of them in my "race box" too, they are different sizes, as near as I can remember, I used the one with the 5/8" hole the most.

something else to think about.

Thanks Joe, glad you are healing and doing well  

Vance

[Bruce Dorsi]

More questions, Vance:

Do you have a heater connected to the manifold/water pump?

If so, is the coolant flow interrupted to stop the heat function, or is the airflow closed off to prevent heat?

If you don't run a heater, do you have the ports at the manifold and water pump plugged, or do you have a hose connecting the two ports?


Many OEM SBC applications had the waterpump driven faster than the engine rpm.  .....The stock pulleys on my '69 350 overdrive the pump by 26%.    .......I don't think your pump speed is too high, unless you are doing a lot of extended high-rpm cruising.

[EMSjunkie]

More questions, Vance:

Do you have a heater connected to the manifold/water pump?

If so, is the coolant flow interrupted to stop the heat function, or is the airflow closed off to prevent heat?

If you don't run a heater, do you have the ports at the manifold and water pump plugged, or do you have a hose connecting the two ports?


Many OEM SBC applications had the waterpump driven faster than the engine rpm.  .....The stock pulleys on my '69 350 overdrive the pump by 26%.    .......I don't think your pump speed is too high, unless you are doing a lot of extended high-rpm cruising.

Yes I do. it is a VintageAir GenII compac unit with electric servo controls
I believe the water flow is blocked by the servo valve.
pressure line comes from the intake to the heat / ac unit, return from the unit to the water pump. according to the directions provided by VintageAir.

define "extended high -rpm cruising" :?:
usually after about 20-30 min of 55-65 mph driving, the temp will creep up to 190-195* and the fan will come on. as stated earlier, its a Centech adjustable fan controller, I can choose what temp it comes on and off at.

RPM's on the tach show about 2400-2600 at those speeds.

thanks for thinking about me.

Vance

[Bruce Dorsi]

Yes I do. it is a VintageAir GenII compac unit with electric servo controls
I believe the water flow is blocked by the servo valve.
pressure line comes from the intake to the heat / ac unit, return from the unit to the water pump. according to the directions provided by VintageAir.

OK, so it doesn't appear the coolant is "short-cycling" and returning back to the block/heads, without passing through the radiator.

define "extended high -rpm cruising" :?:
usually after about 20-30 min of 55-65 mph driving, the temp will creep up to 190-195* and the fan will come on. as stated earlier, its a Centech adjustable fan controller, I can choose what temp it comes on and off at.

RPM's on the tach show about 2400-2600 at those speeds.

For my T-Bucket, "extended high-rpm cruising" is a lengthy drive at 75-80 mph.  ....I'm running a TH-350 with a 3.70 rear, and my rpm @80mph is just under 4000 rpm.

I really don't think you have a problem running at 200* unless you are puking coolant.