Muncie 4 speed

GPster · April 02, 2007, 09:19:35 PM

Quote from: "zzebby"The first clutch was a hipo Hays, now it is stock, both were diaphram type.
Pilot bearing has always been a press fit and I checked that it had no play on the input shaft before I installed it.

Just to add another idea to this mess. There used to be two diaphram pressure plates. One had straight fingers and one had bent fingers. I think they required different clutch discs. GPster

reborn55 · April 02, 2007, 11:12:27 PM

How about the clutch linkage itself--cross shaft alignment, fork ball stud, pedal bushings. Fought a chatter in a tri-five for years and it was in the pedal and linkage itself

zzebby · April 02, 2007, 11:56:12 PM

Good point. I put in a new ball and adjusted it. The cross shft is factory and good. The link up to the pedal is homemade with ball ends. I'll check all that.
If Crosley is on here maybe he can recommend a manual trans shop that is familiar with these and can get parts. Someone in the Phx area ??
Shipping elsewhere would be $$

GPster · April 03, 2007, 11:11:04 AM

Quote from: "GPster"
Quote from: "zzebby"The first clutch was a hipo Hays, now it is stock, both were diaphram type.
Pilot bearing has always been a press fit and I checked that it had no play on the input shaft before I installed it.
Just to add another idea to this mess. There used to be two diaphram pressure plates. One had straight fingers and one had bent fingers. I think they required different clutch discs. GPster

They also use different throw out bearings and the bearing MIGHT cause a difference in clutch linkage. GPster

CQQL33 · April 06, 2007, 12:47:43 PM

Hey zzebby !!! Have you found the solution

I am looking forward to learning of the answer.............. Please advise.

GPster · April 06, 2007, 03:08:03 PM

Quote from: "CQQL33"Hey zzebby !!! Have you found the solution I am looking forward to learning of the answer.............. Please advise.

We all have answers. Just depends on the Question. GPster

CQQL33 · April 06, 2007, 05:04:27 PM

Yeah, I know............Yellow Book dot commmmmmmmmmmmmmm

My question is related to the clutch chatter concern at the beginning of this post..................

zzebby · April 08, 2007, 08:40:02 PM

No solution yet. I'm saving my $ and hope to be able to tear it open in about 2 weeks. I'll get the muncie redone while it is apart if I can find a local shop that has parts and know what they're doing. While it is out I'll measure where the pilot is and how much the input shaft sticks out. I'm hoping to reuse the clutch and PP as it has only been in there about 6 months. $$$ you know.

zzebby · March 03, 2012, 02:04:56 PM

Wow it has been 5 yrs since I posted this. I don't drive it much, but the last few weeks I've driven it daily. Backing up, the chatter shakes the whole car.....bad. I took it to a local shop that does mostly muscle cars (friend) and they took it all apart, dial indicator to the flywheel and no runout in any plane. Everything looked perfect. Hays flywheel, Luk clutch, new pilot bearing. You could see from marks on the input shaft that it was riding fully in the pilot bearing. On leaving that shop there was no chatter, nice and smooth. BUT 100 miles later it is chattering again. I kept driving it and noticed that the chatter would come and go, most of the time it would chatter, but maybe 1 time out of 20 it would be smooth. Then I noticed that the speed vibration, about 65 mph, would also come and go. Usually at speed you could see the hood vibrate and feel it thru the whole car, it would harmonic, about a 4 sec period. Once in a while there would be no vib.....nice and smooth all the way up to 75 mph. Realized that the clutch chatter and speed vibration must have the same cause ....and it comes and goes. Something is floating off center .....must be the pilot bearing. Tore it all apart last night and pilot looks fine and marks on the input shaft show that it is fully in the pilot. Only though is that there was the slightest indication of oil on the flywheel surface near the center. Oil can cause clutch chatter, but not speed vib and if that was the cause then it would always be there. engine does leak a little oil but not much, bottom of the oil filter (spin on conversion kit) is wet.
Ideas ? 66 chevelle, stock 396, 4 speed all original stuff, no wear in the clutch linkage, rebuilt several times. Same proble for 5 yrs now and maybe 3000 miles.

Pete · March 03, 2012, 02:28:50 PM

You mentioned changing bell housings but did you dial it in??
I have seen stock ones off as much as .018 and that can sure cause the problem you have.

jaybee · March 04, 2012, 12:29:15 AM

The idea that the input shaft isn't properly centered on the crankshaft centerline has some merit, though your comments about checking runout hopefully eliminated that question.

Now, here's one that's out of left field. Your speed-related vibration...is it strictly road speed, or is it possible it's engine speed? Some BBC's are externally balanced, yours is internal. Possible there's a parts mismatch?

Carnut · March 04, 2012, 02:23:37 AM

Ok, can I go way out on left field?

Any chance you have a grabbing brake shoe on the rear axle? I've seen folks have chatter problems and thinking it was the clutch when it turned out to be a rear brake hanging up.

but on forward vibration at speed I'd go up front and check for a bad or rotated harmonic balancer.

reborn55 · March 04, 2012, 08:10:25 AM

have you checked the motor mounts---maybe one of the bolts worked loose or even bell housing bolts or trans bolts.

GPster · March 04, 2012, 08:29:43 AM

Quote from: "Carnut"Ok, can I go way out on left field?

Any chance you have a grabbing brake shoe on the rear axle? I've seen folks have chatter problems and thinking it was the clutch when it turned out to be a rear brake hanging up.but on forward vibration at speed I'd go up front and check for a bad or rotated harmonic balancer.

And to add to that, Could the lead brake shoes been put on the back? That's an interesting comment. If the self-adjusters (if it has them) could have been put on wrong. If work had been done on the brakes and everything thrown in a box side-for-side and front for back shoes could have been messed up. Also if the rear end was changed and the brakes changed while the rear end was getting cleaned up on the bench before installation. I went through a deal like this when I was younger (years ago). Put a "bent finger" clutch set on my daily driver (307, 3 speed) because I though it would make it faster. Had a vibrating rattle noise and was sure something was wrong. Come to find out that the air cleaner was not put on correctly with it's tab in the notch of the carb throat so the air cleaner was vibrating. GPster

wayne petty · March 04, 2012, 10:37:39 AM

this is just my fingers rambling around the keyboard..

lets talk about the OIL LEAK...

you might also want to verify the oil leak is NOT coming from the FUEL PUMP GASKET... my 396/402 that i had in my 66 GTO had a weird oil leak.. rev it up and oil would be all over the bottom of the motor.. i had to bring the rpms up over 4000 RPMs sitting still to actually find it.. super weather strip adhesive on both sides of the fuel pump gasket solved the problem.. i never figured out why that actually leaked there.. but thats how i got the motor.. it always leaked oil..

spin on oil filter adaptors.. a question.. what brand oil filter adaptor are you using??? there are several out there... some are KNOWN oil leaks just waiting to happen..

in the short run... do you you have room to reinstall the canister filter assembly .. or can you select a different brand of spin on adaptor???

some engines had the oil filter area machined for the factory spin on but still got the canister... are the sides of the machined area stepped where its all 90 degree angles..
like this.. --|______|-- or this style that will not accept the later adaptor.. --\______/-- where the sides are as cast and at an angle..

the leak is usually the oring or seal between the adaptor flange and the block.. so its hard to see.. and hard to fix.. without a newer better o ring or seal..

how much oil pressure do you have??? excessive amounts can blow out almost any of these seals..

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almost any oil mist on the clutch will make it chatter when its chattering as you get it to finally engage... its a small chance that it could be ever so slightly off center.. when you get to the 65 and the vibration starts.. stomp on the clutch and release it.. see if the vibration vanishes after you reengage the clutch..

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brake shoe issues have also caused weird things.. but are easy to check.. if you need more info on this.. i can supply it..

i also have a neat way to check the brakes adjustment . when there is a hole in the backing plate..

with a flash light and a screw driver.. stick it through the slot in the backing plate.. shove the star wheel forward then shove it backwards.. if you get more than about 1/16 of an inch.. that brake might be out of adjustment..