New Nose for the #974 "Just Glad to be Here" ?

[enjenjo]

 

Here is about the same thing without the Roots blower, but with twin turbo's.

c ya,

Sum

I really like this shot WITHOUT the scoop..............The scoop needs to go if ya wanna go faster. Just my half-nickle's worth

You could always front mount the blower since you will have more room.

[slocrow]

You could always front mount the blower since you will have more room.

Ohhh, good thinking. What were those, Povton, or something like that?

[1FATGMC]

 

Here is about the same thing without the Roots blower, but with twin turbo's.

c ya,

Sum

I really like this shot WITHOUT the scoop..............The scoop needs to go if ya wanna go faster. Just my half-nickle's worth

I know the scoop bothers some of you, but let me talk about it a little.  The rules say you can chop the top, but still you have to leave a minimum vertical windshield height of 5 inches.  Also the rules dictate the angle of the windshield.  So there would be real advantages to only having the windshield 2 inches high and at a sever angle, more than the rules allow.  This is obvious because a windshield is not a very aerodynamic part on the car.

Also remember that the two things that slow the car down at high speed related to aerodynamics is the frontal area and the Cd, coefficient of drag.  These both are equal.  Let's say the frontal area, and this is not the front of the car it is the cars widest frontal area -- in our case a cross-section about the middle of the car.  Ok lets make the frontal area 22 square feet.  Let's say the Cd, how efficient the shape lets the air go past it, is .5.  If we could cut the frontal area down to 11 sq. ft. then we would cut the drag in half.  This is not an option in our case as we chopped the top as much as possible, cutting down on the frontal area, but we can't narrow the body (the rules).  If we can improve the Cd from our .5 to .25 then we again have cut the aero drag in half.  At high speed over 90% of our HP goes into the aero drag.  Very little goes into hauling the weight of the car or rolling resistance.

So what we are now trying to do with the front besides lengthen the wheelbase for better CP and stability, is to improve the Cd.  So the air scoop looks big, but it hasn't add to the frontal area of the car and it is more aerodynamic than the windshield.  At least I think it is, but only a wind tunnel could tell us.  The opening in the scoop is designed to let the air in that we need and not much more.  This way air is not piling up at the front of the scoop opening and hurting aero.

So since the rules allow a "blown" car to add a scoop even with the turbo combination I probably would like to take advantage of that if it was my car.  So something like the following is maybe what I would do.

   

But who knows what is best and the one you like is the one that probably looks the best and might work the best,

Sum

[sirstude]

Sum,

Thanks for the explanation.  I missed the windshield angle in the rule book, knew about the vertical height.  Although there is no vertical rule printed in the rule book specifically for the Modified Sports class.   A couple of us have asked the height question on Landracing and have gotten no reply.  I am sure if one showed up with a "short" windshield, it would be called.  

BTW, what SCTA club do all you guys belong to?

Doug

[slocrow]

Yes thanks Sum, for the info. The scoop didn't bother me in appearance. If anything I incorrectly assumed drag and was thinking to achieve a lower profile. As you've explained it, as long as it's below the roof line and less vertical, it's a non issue.
So, if you had a scoop in shape as wide and as high as the windshield, could you overcome the degree of windshield lay back rule limitation, and gain CD. You'd just have to be able to see through the scoop material.
Is it correct thinking that the shape of a falling rain drop is the perfect shape. I thought I remember that from a Lance Reventlow's Scarab design article, some almost 50 years ago. The next best thing from a long diminishing tail was the cam back chop off, also I think........Frank

Just remembered that all applied to Jim Hall's Chaparral's.......CRS

[1FATGMC]

Sum,

Thanks for the explanation.  I missed the windshield angle in the rule book, knew about the vertical height.  Although there is no vertical rule printed in the rule book specifically for the Modified Sports class.   A couple of us have asked the height question on Landracing and have gotten no reply.  I am sure if one showed up with a "short" windshield, it would be called.  

BTW, what SCTA club do all you guys belong to?

Doug

The rule book is hard to follow in a lot of areas and this is one of them.  Kroozn sent me a line drawing of the car he is doing, yes Carl is going to become a Land Speed Racer    -- hope this is now public knowledge Carl   , if not I guess it is now  :oops: .  

   

I took the line drawing an put a body on it explaining the top chop the way I understand it with the max. limits.  In comp coupe they say 5 inch windshield.  I think in the Altered section they say at least 6 inches above the cowl and in one of those places they talk about the lay-back in the center at the 5 inch height as 7 inches.  You are right I don't see what you are suppose to do in modified sports.

 

The other vague area is above the windshield.  This is Gene Winfield's car and it sure looks like he also chopped it above the windshield and I don't know if the top follows the original contour.  Grey area for sure.  One thing to remember just because a car goes through the tech safety inspection does not make it legal for the class it is running in.  That is your responsibility and will be checked if you do set a record.  I think Gene's car is close to the record, but hasn't set it, so we don't know if it is a legal car or not at this point unless he has had it checked specifically for that.

Frank I think the full width scoop would maybe draw the "not to the spirit of the rules", but there again the rules have a lot of grey areas.   On a competition coupe car like Hooley's you can streamline in front of the cowl and they seem to let the scoop area from the cowl backwards to the top of the windshield alone.  So the front could be real high and maybe look through it, but then I'll bet you would have to stop it at the cowl resulting in a huge gap between it and the top of the windshield.

You are right about the air at the back of the car being very important.  Most of the drag on the car is the low pressure area behind it trying to suck the car backwards into it.  With a lakester or streamliner you can do anything you want at the back, but with a car/truck you are stuck with what you have back there.

If we went looking for a new comp coupe body to use I wouldn't care at all what the front looked like as we can change that to anything we want.  I would look at the frontal area (cross section in the middle of the car) and I would look at the back of the car since we can't do any changes there.  So look at a lot of the new cars and see how nice the back of the roof flows down into the top of the trunk area.  They are doing this for fuel mileage, directly related to aero drag.  They have your "teardrop" shape and yes the teardrop is what we want to try and get, so long pointed noses work for some, but aren't the best when it comes to aero drag.

Doug we don't belong to any of the SCTA clubs.  I'm starting to look into it for myself, but I don't ever really see myself running at El Mirage.

c ya,

Sum

[sirstude]

Thanks Sum,  I thought you had to belong to one of the SCTA clubs to race at Bonneville.  Another area that is kind of confusing.

Doug

[slocrow]

Frank I think the full width scoop would maybe draw the "not to the spirit of the rules", Sum

Hummmmmmm, I wonder what Smokey would do/say?
Thanks Sum, just kidding.....FRank

[1FATGMC]

Thanks Sum,  I thought you had to belong to one of the SCTA clubs to race at Bonneville.  Another area that is kind of confusing.

Doug

No you joint BNI (Bonneville Nationals Inc.) I joint now since for the $60.00 you get Speed Week Entry pin (pays your entry in as a spectator for the week), embroidered patch, Speed Week Poster, SCTA Rule Book,
Speed Week program,  BNI decal and 4 issues of the Straightaway news.  I think it is a good deal especially since Speed Week spectator entry has gone up.

If you want to be a voting member to maybe have some influence on the rules you need to belong to one of the clubs and some of them will accept absentee members,

Sum

[Hooley]

Doug, It seems like I read the rules about MP and it said you could completle remove the top. I was looking in to Mod Sports. There is a Saab Sonnett out on my mail route. It could be picked up.

  Hooley

[sirstude]

Hooley.  the rule book I have says "windshields may be lowered or removed. Coupe tops may be chopped" I know we talked about that Saab on your route, but I have to get my rear in gear and get the Olds done before I bite off anything else.  I am thinking about possibly selling my Vicky though, not sure I want to build another rod with all that entails.

The go fast without all the "fit and finish" of a rod sounds kind of good and a return to my roots.  I spent a good many years growing up in the motorcycle and snowmobile racing game.  When Kenny Roberts was racing for K&N on the dirt tracks with a 650 Yamaha, we had the clone to it.  For some reason they took a liking to a little shop in Helena Montana and gave us all the information at the same time they were doing it on their bikes.  We had one fast  650 (750 kit in it) Yamaha.  I sure wish I knew what happened to that bike, the serial number was 000002.

Doug

[1FATGMC]

............ but I have to get my rear in gear and get the Olds done before I bite off anything else. .............

Doug

What is the problem with one more car laying around .

Interesting motorcycle stuff.  Seems like a lot of us had some motorcycle roots.

Completely off topic back in the early 80's I build some field equipment for Hydrometrics there in Helena.  One of the owners then was Max, but I forgot his last name.  I just did a Google on them and see they are still there, but no mention of Max.  I assume he must of sold out.  My other main contact with them was a Doug, but can't remember his last name either.  Do you by any chance know who I'm talking about?

c ya,

Sum

[sirstude]

Sum,

I know  a bunch of the guys at Westech which is next door to Hydrometrics.  Hydrometrics got involved with the Smelter here when they did all the yard replacments for the EPA.  They started doing them and Arsco didn't like how much it was costing, so they bought the company, or at least a large interest in it.  Not sure of the status now with the smelter shut down, as to who still owns it.  Next time I am down that direction I will by and see who is there, I might know some of them.  

Doug

[1FATGMC]

Sum,

I know  a bunch of the guys at Westech which is next door to Hydrometrics.  Hydrometrics got involved with the Smelter here when they did all the yard replacments for the EPA.  They started doing them and Arsco didn't like how much it was costing, so they bought the company, or at least a large interest in it.  Not sure of the status now with the smelter shut down, as to who still owns it.  Next time I am down that direction I will by and see who is there, I might know some of them.  

Doug

That jogs my memory some.  Seems like some of the guys I worked with went from Hydrometrics to Westech or the other way around and I might have been paid from both for different equipment I made.  I made them a "pump trailer" to do water quality and drawdown tests on purposed coal mine sites.  Also built them some smaller equipment although one larger thing I did for one or the other of them was a "rain fall simulator".  That was an interesting project.  They sent me to Miss. to see one the U of Miss had built that cost thousands.  I did one for much less.  The pump trailer cost them $16,000 if I remember right and others had paid about $50,000 for theirs and they wouldn't do what the one I designed and built did.  I forgot a lot of that.

I also built one for Western Water in Sheridan, Wyoming where I was living, near by.  Some of the guys jumped ship from the Montana company and went to work for Western Water and got hold of me.

Let me know what you find out and say hi if anyone still there remembers me.  I did that stuff around '81-'83 or so before I started my computer store.

I'll work on the Sonnet rendering.  I just use a photo software I have and use the clone part of it to put in stuff.  That is why the quality isn't great.

c ya,

Sum

[dragrcr50]

Sum,

I know  a bunch of the guys at Westech which is next door to Hydrometrics.  Hydrometrics got involved with the Smelter here when they did all the yard replacments for the EPA.  They started doing them and Arsco didn't like how much it was costing, so they bought the company, or at least a large interest in it.  Not sure of the status now with the smelter shut down, as to who still owns it.  Next time I am down that direction I will by and see who is there, I might know some of them.  

Doug

That jogs my memory some.  Seems like some of the guys I worked with went from Hydrometrics to Westech or the other way around and I might have been paid from both for different equipment I made.  I made them a "pump trailer" to do water quality and drawdown tests on purposed coal mine sites.  Also built them some smaller equipment although one larger thing I did for one or the other of them was a "rain fall simulator".  That was an interesting project.  They sent me to Miss. to see one the U of Miss had built that cost thousands.  I did one for much less.  The pump trailer cost them $16,000 if I remember right and others had paid about $50,000 for theirs and they wouldn't do what the one I designed and built did.  I forgot a lot of that.

I also built one for Western Water in Sheridan, Wyoming where I was living, near by.  Some of the guys jumped ship from the Montana company and went to work for Western Water and got hold of me.

Let me know what you find out and say hi if anyone still there remembers me.  I did that stuff around '81-'83 or so before I started my computer store.

I'll work on the Sonnet rendering.  I just use a photo software I have and use the clone part of it to put in stuff.  That is why the quality isn't great.

c ya,

Sum

Man this is interesting, I'm just sittin back and reading , carry on men.............and yes forgo some fit and finish for som fit n fun  I say, and I mean that...............