Tools for tubes, Tube notchers???

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Any person used / bought the tool for working with tubes for chassis & roll bars?

The tool forms into the  shape of the needed tube notch as on a roll cage.

Looks like little metal rods that slide inside a holder ring?

is that clear as mud?  LOL


EDIT:  Tubing notchers??

I see the hole saw type , bushings or needle bearings on the shaft.

I see the punch type notchers.  I see tools for lathe use, which seem like a PITA to use

About 125 bucks to many thousands of $$

I am not building a lot of tube chassis stuff........ sounds like the hole saw type would work for me??


:?

[enjenjo]

Yes, I've used one. they work well, not perfect in some cases, but close enough to dress with a sander.

[Bob Paulin]

Any person used / bought the tool for working with tubes for chassis & roll bars?

The tool forms into the  shape of the needed tube notch as on a roll cage.

Looks like little metal rods that slide inside a holder ring?

is that clear as mud?  LOL

Sounds like you're looking for a contour guage that is rolled up to fit around a tube or pipe.

I see them advertised all the time in oval-track publications.

Here's a link to the Longacre site where one example is available.


http://www.longacreracing.com/catalog/productindex.asp


Scroll down about three-quarters of the way to "Accessories - Pipemaster Kits" and "Accessories - Pipemaster Tools".

It will be right after all the rivet stuff.

There you will see four and nine-piece kits along with individual tools. Unfortunately, you need a specific tool for each tubing size.

The Longacre stuff tends to be a bit pricey, but I have some Longacre tools such as their tire stagger guage and bump-steer guage, and I have worked with many of the other Longacre tools owned by various race teams.

I, personally, like the stuff.

If I were to buy such a tool, I would not hesitate to spend the money for Longacre.

There are some others who have similar tools at not-much-lower prices, (it's still a fairly new offering and a novelty), but I cannot seem to find them in a quick scan of recent oval-track magazines.

You might try a Google for "tubing contour guage" or something like that.

Having said all that, I find that when there is a fit that defies my electronic protractor and  rotary table on my milling machine - such as a multi-tube junction - I simply tape a piece of manila folder around a scrap piece of tubing - allowing it to stick out a bit, attach a magnetic protractor like the $10 ones you find at Sears and Home Depot, hold it at the angle it needs to be,  and cut away with scissors until it is an acceptable fit.

I then slide the manila folder tube off the scrap, and onto the good piece, trace it, then cut to the line.

B.P.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

OK..... thanks.

With the correct tool name I did a Google search.

does not seem to be much movement in the tool pricing.

Summit is  a nickel cheaper than most

[enjenjo]

You asked if I had used one, yes I did, but I normally do it the same way as Bob. Then I cut to the line with a chop saw.

[WZ JUNK]

My buddy Larry builds pulling tractor cages.   He uses a long fluted end mill in a milling machine.  They hold the tubing in a special vise at just the right angle and bring the mill into it from the side.  The milling cutters are very expensive but it does an incredible job and the pieces are as nearly a perfect fit as can be.   Of course they follow up with a tig weld and so no one really every sees the nice job that they do.

John

[Bob Paulin]

My buddy Larry builds pulling tractor cages.   He uses a long fluted end mill in a milling machine.  They hold the tubing in a special vise at just the right angle and bring the mill into it from the side.  The milling cutters are very expensive but it does an incredible job and the pieces are as nearly a perfect fit as can be.   Of course they follow up with a tig weld and so no one really every sees the nice job that they do.

John

That's the way I do it, too.

You may not see the fit after it is welded, but, believe me, the welder appreciates the fit.

I use a rotary table, with a vise mounted on it.

I just did a single hoop and some stretch bars for a friend who is building a nostalgia flathead dragster.

He gave me the bottom width and height of the hoop, and I was able to bend that to fit.

Then he came back and gave me the angle for the rear stretch bars. I set the rotary table mounted on my millimg machine table to that angle, clamped the tubing, and ran the milling machine table across into the 1-3/4" roughing mill.

A couple of minutes later, he had two fishmouthed pieces.

He called me that afternoon and said it all fit perfectly.

I've also seen guys who had lathes set up with a vise set on the cross slide to set the angle and the mill mounted in the three-jaw-chuck.

One guy was even using the bottom end from a flathead connecting rod to hold the tubing.

B.P.

[Bob Paulin]

OK..... thanks.

With the correct tool name I did a Google search.

does not seem to be much movement in the tool pricing.

Summit is  a nickel cheaper than most

Tony:

I believe that Pipemaster is the *brand name* - not the generic term - of one particular tool of this kind.

I have seen others available for several dollars less, but I am not able to put my finger on them at the moment.

I would Google "tube notch* ", "tube contour", "tube guage", "metalworking tools", etc.

Not sure if US Tool, Brown Aviation, Cleaveland Aircraft Tools, Dagger Tools, and others of that ilk might also have them.

[GPster]

With a garage the size of yours I would buy a good floor mounted drill press with a good table on it that can be put at angles. With a decentdrill press you can do it with holesaws and not have to buy on special tool that only has one good use. Some things to watch. My drillpress has a drill chuck that that is mounted on a Jacobs taper shaft and sometimes a force sideways on the chuck will cause it drop out ( doesnt work a * with milling tools) but I try to overlook those shortcomming as I bought it Thirty years ago for $150.00 at a discount store. Also instead of trying to make a cut clear through you can figure where the cut needs to be and drill your center hole first for the radius of the hole saw on both sides of the tube. If you do a little bit of drawing you can even drill holes to set a kingpin boss in a tube straight front axel so that your spindles will be at the proper inclination. And while we're talking about this, a decent tube cutter with a wheel will score a nice line around the surface of a round tube. For jobs requiring less precission I usually use radiator hose clamps.  The best tool for making a straight line the length of a tube is a piece of angleiron. I have friends that run a machine shop and build re-designed driveshafts all the time (and they never come back because they were made wrong) and they use angle iron to make sure the "U" joints are not out-of-time. So much of me trying to impress myself into thinking I know something. GPster

[Rex Schimmer]

I learned this method from Dewayne Korn, who owned H&L Metals on Signal Hill, CA and probably bent  welded together more tubing than all of us combined! He did all of his "fish mouthing" with a torch. I have done several roll cages for stock cars and some sports cars and can tell you it works. You need to be doing it on heavy wall tubing. Set your tube to be cut on to the tube that it is going to be welded to, measure distance from the end of the tube to the mating tube (if you set one tube against another at an angle one end of the diameter obviously does not come close to the mating tube, this is the distance that you measure.) Then turn the tube over and mark that distance on the back side with a piece of chalk, now take your cutting torch and angle it so that the cutting flame is on the angle from the chalk mark to the end of the tube on the opposite side or just a little short of this poing so that the cut will saddle the tube. Start the cut in the middle of the tube, keep the torch angled and cut first one side then the other. Move the torch in a straight line perpenducular to the center line of the tube, again first cut one side then the other. With a little work you will be supprised at the nice finish of the cut and how close it is to a good fit.  it will only take a little tuning up on the belt or disc sander to make a perfect fit. Only do this with mild steel as it can have a bad affect on 4130.

Remember on any type of tube end finishing, milling cutter, hole saw etc that the edge of the cut must be ground back so that the weld is not to the knife edge that is made by the cutter. Sure it makes a real pretty weld but the full strenght of the tubing is not used. If you are doing 1/8 wall tubing then you want to have at least a 1/8 to 3/16 weld fillet for strength.

Rex

[C9]

Joe Amateur checkin' in.

If you only have to do a few fishmouths, use the fitting templates - or a close approximation thereof - to mark a line/pattern on the tubing.

Cut the tubing close to finished size on a chopsaw or bandsaw.
Take into account the angle if any.

Use your bench grinder to grind the fishmouth in.

If you're patient you can make a pretty accurate fit although it will take some time compared to using a dedicated tool.

I did a few of these when I built a new X style crossmember out of 1 1/2" x .120 wall DOM tubing for my 32's frame.

I tacked it with a crude-o TIG (high frequency adapter etc.) and my little brothers professional welder friend did the final welding with a real TIG.

The fit was close and as mentioned, the edges ground back a bit for a little more 'grab' of the weld bead.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I tried one of the Harbor Freight angle cutter gizmo's . . . not worth a darn.
We even went so far as to machine up several 'kits' so my amateur welder friend could make some.
The fit et al was a lot closer than the HF stuff, but they were still a pain to use.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

C9....... thanks for the info.


So the $40.00 hole saw type tube angle cutter from HF is not worth the effort?

I have this chassis tube kit I bought from Jegs 1 year ago..... plenty of cut and formed ( bent)  tubes that I need to fish mouth / fit together and weld.

I will be MIG welding this kit since I sold my old Linde TIG machine .

[Rex Schimmer]

Why would you sell a TIG? and then use a "mud gun" i.e. MIG Good for making trailers and welding "angle iron" TIG is for makine hot rods and race cars.

Rex

[C9]

It's hard not to use a TIG since a MIG is so much faster.

Don't the stock car troops use a MIG for a lot of their chassis stuff?

Maybe even NASCAR?

[JOECOOL]

For what it's worth I do drag cars . I purchased a hole jigger or something like that years ago and although it does a good job it is a pain. You have to use oil to get any life from the hole saws and it vibrates and is very noisy.
I use a small air powered body saw and finish with a die grinder and it usual is faster and a lot cleaner. As far as tubes missalighing sometimes you can put another bend in the tube and get it to butt up square or closer anyway.