Straight Axle Camber

348tripower · April 06, 2006, 12:38:36 PM

What is normal camber for say a 37 Ford axle. When I look at the front of my car the wheels are way in at the top? Is this normal? I have a friend with a Cheverolet and his are the other way?
Don

GPster · April 06, 2006, 01:22:43 PM

Quote from: "348tripower"What is normal camber for say a 37 Ford axle. When I look at the front of my car the wheels are way in at the top? Is this normal? I have a friend with a Cheverolet and his are the other way?
Don

The wheels should be in at the top but if your toe-in is out and having a lot of caster (Ford uses more than Chevy) it could possibly be a mirage. The checking should be done as a group. This is part of the reason for fenders so you acn't tell how the front tires are wearing at a glance. GPster

donsrods · April 07, 2006, 12:20:26 AM

The way Ford (and probably other axles) are designed, is that when they have little weight on them, the tires lean out at the top. Then when you put more weight on them, they deflect and the tires start getting more straight up and down.

If your axle is bent, or deformed, what an alignment shop would do is clamp down portions of the beam, and then put a big jack under the other portion to reshape the axle into the proper alignment.

You won't find this service at your local quicky alignment shop, you have to go to an old time truck alignment shop to have this done.

I just saw a really nice roadster at Daytona last November, and the wheels were really slanted in at the top, and he had a beam axle. I stared at it for a long time, just trying to see if I was seeing things. But it was really off. Don't know if he bent the axle or what.

Don

Arnold · April 07, 2006, 01:09:49 AM

Quote from: "donsrods"The way Ford (and probably other axles) are designed, is that when they have little weight on them, the tires lean out at the top. Then when you put more weight on them, they deflect and the tires start getting more straight up and down.

If your axle is bent, or deformed, what an alignment shop would do is clamp down portions of the beam, and then put a big jack under the other portion to reshape the axle into the proper alignment.

You won't find this service at your local quicky alignment shop, you have to go to an old time truck alignment shop to have this done.

I just saw a really nice roadster at Daytona last November, and the wheels were really slanted in at the top, and he had a beam axle. I stared at it for a long time, just trying to see if I was seeing things. But it was really off. Don't know if he bent the axle or what.

Don

You can make up a pretty cheap..sort of alignment rack.I did.There really isn't anything that rocket science like to alignment.
I you want to get serious,serious you need a pad.But you can improvise there too.
To get you started..go to the nearest scrap yard.Get a piece of I beam.You will know what is strong enough to drive a car over/support a car if need be.About 9 to 10' is good.
All you need now is a flat area.Ideally..a flat,level pad..but any reasonablly flat area will do.The flatter the better.A big level if you need it.
Somehow you end up with the I beam across..and can jack up the vehicle..slide it under the tires..whatever..get the vehicle sitting on it's tires on the I beam.You can make up a plate/etc., if need be.
An angle made up about 2' long and about 2-3' high.Angle iron/tube whatever.Welded/bolted..90 deg..this is your reference.ROFL..first one I made was of aluminum yardsticks..hey..it worked.
You can clamp this thing to the I beam if you want.
To the uprights of the angle..you can drill,tap and use bolts..or drill,double nut..and get your distance from the top and bottom of the rim..or tire if you want.Figure out your camber.Correct it if you have a vehicle that you can do this.
Toe..couple pieces of pipe..inside and outside and the vicegrips..will figure this out.Or make up a simple gauge.Or accurately reference the I beam to square ahead and behind the wheels..the further the better..and make up some sort of "head" to measure toe.
If you have a pad..or some more lengths you can build a rectangle.level it.Not hard to figger out caster from here.
LOL..first time I needed to do caster I used a plumb bob..worked.

This stuff takes up whatever space you need to keep a 9/10' piece of I beam.Leave it outside if you want.Costs about zilch.Ditto for the other pieces.A few clamps..bolts.This is just not hard or expensive to build or do.

Bending I beams to do alignment..NAaa..do as has been mentioned.Truck alignment place.

348tripower · April 07, 2006, 08:37:23 AM

I found this link and it has a world of information.
http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/caster.htm
It is worth copying and saving. The specs he shows have 5/8 inch camber for a 37 to 48 Ford. But it doesn't say if it is per side or total. I would assume it is total. Also it looks to me that positive camber is with the wheels closer on top? The picture of the bending fixture refers to increase and decrease of camber. I would assume + and -.
Don

Quote from: "donsrods"The way Ford (and probably other axles) are designed, is that when they have little weight on them, the tires lean out at the top. Then when you put more weight on them, they deflect and the tires start getting more straight up and down.

If your axle is bent, or deformed, what an alignment shop would do is clamp down portions of the beam, and then put a big jack under the other portion to reshape the axle into the proper alignment.

You won't find this service at your local quicky alignment shop, you have to go to an old time truck alignment shop to have this done.

I just saw a really nice roadster at Daytona last November, and the wheels were really slanted in at the top, and he had a beam axle. I stared at it for a long time, just trying to see if I was seeing things. But it was really off. Don't know if he bent the axle or what.

Don

GPster · April 07, 2006, 08:51:06 AM

Quote from: "348tripower"I found this link and it has a world of information. It is worth copying and saving. The specs he shows have 5/8 inch camber for a 37 to 48 Ford. But it doesn't say if it is per side or total. I would assume it is total.Don

Read that book a little deeper and find out how they measured it. Bear in mind that if it's measured at the traed surface of the tire it would have been on 16" rims and your measurement on shorter wheels/tires will be different. Another good reason not to run fenders. GPster

348tripower · April 07, 2006, 09:23:38 AM

I am reading anything I can find on this. Negative camber seems to be closer at the top. I was waiting for Frank to jump in here, being the guru of all things that he is.
Don

Quote from: "GPster"
Quote from: "348tripower"I found this link and it has a world of information. It is worth copying and saving. The specs he shows have 5/8 inch camber for a 37 to 48 Ford. But it doesn't say if it is per side or total. I would assume it is total.Don
Read that book a little deeper and find out how they measured it. Bear in mind that if it's measured at the traed surface of the tire it would have been on 16" rims and your measurement on shorter wheels/tires will be different. Another good reason not to run fenders. GPster

flt-blk · April 07, 2006, 10:16:07 AM

Aslo remember the stock spec is for 1937 roads, bias ply tires and old car suspension.

A little adaptation probably wouldn't hurt if you are going to make adjustments anyway.

enjenjo · April 08, 2006, 12:27:38 PM

The 1940 edition of Motor's repair manual list the camber of a 37 Ford as 1/2 to 1 degree negative. You may have to get the axle bent to get that, not a big deal.

348tripower · April 08, 2006, 06:41:01 PM

Thanks everyone for the input. I gotta get this one out of storage and give it a good hard look. I have a worn out pair of front tires, but they have 20,000 miles on them. Being as this is rod and not a daily driver, maybe this is accepatble?
Don

Quote from: "enjenjo"The 1940 edition of Motor's repair manual list the camber of a 37 Ford as 1/2 to 1 degree negative. You may have to get the axle bent to get that, not a big deal.