Cleaning the water jackets on an engine.

enjenjo · February 23, 2006, 11:19:02 PM

This sprint car I am working on has an A block in it. I tore the engine down, and found that it wasn't really properly cleaned before it was rebuilt. The engine mechanically is in great shape, but the water jackets have some scale in them, more than I like.

Since any normal method of cleaning the block, caustic dip, thermal stripping, and other methods, will destroy the babbit bearings, I am trying to come up with a way to just soak the water jackets.

There is one outlet on the side of the block that I can plug, the rest of the openings are on the deck, so it looks like it may be possible.

So what do I use to clean it? Something like CLR? Muratic acid? Oxysolve?Do they make something for doing this?

I hate to have to have this rebuilt again just for the rust scale, the price is near $2000 to have it done again.

donsrods · February 23, 2006, 11:59:02 PM

I had one engine done at a machine shop, and the machinist said he had a machine to blow shot through the water passages, because with all the EPA stuff it is getting tough to use the normal caustic hot tanking methods.

I didn't see it done, but the block came back looking like every one I have ever had tanked. Maybe this is something worth checking out?

Did you ever find those shackles you were looking for?

Don

enjenjo · February 24, 2006, 12:07:00 AM

Yes, they were Model T front shackles. I am finding that just about evry part on this car except the frame was sourced from a Ford. But the years range from 1919 to 1940. The frame is a 29 Essex.

river1 · February 24, 2006, 12:08:45 AM

i'm keeping an eye on this thread as i'd like to clean the 48's jackets to help it's cooling here in AZ.

later jim

Scrap Fe · February 24, 2006, 07:33:58 AM

Frank,

Try one part molassis (sp?) to 4 parts water. I've used this solution to remove rust from small parts in a Pyrex baking dish. I don't know how it would work on cast iron.

jaybee · February 24, 2006, 10:24:24 AM

CLR was my first thought, but your muriatic acid idea doesn't sound half bad. Either way I'll bet you'll want to do it with plenty of fresh air because a lot of scale in the water jackets could produce a lot of fumes from whatever you use.

donsrods · February 24, 2006, 12:46:42 PM

enjenjo: I called my machine shop, and he has been around forever, and knows his stuff. He says you could fill the cooling passages with muriatic acid, but it won't hit scale, The only way to get scale is to bake the block and then run shot through it. This will ruin the bearings, but they can be repoured.

He says to try the acid first, then neutralize it with a water flush, it might work.

Hope this helps. Don

GPster · February 24, 2006, 12:58:27 PM

Putting all of these ideas together how about this suggestion. Strip the engine and bout the head back on it using an old gasket. Put the block on an engine stand so that you can rotate it and usea a pump (subersible) from a large pan of acid going into the water passage and let it fill the block til it runs out the other water passage of the block and drains back into the pan ( conviently place at the base of the engine stand) Potatethe engine on the stand so that all levels of the water galley will see some flow and you could even mount the engine on the head bolts or crank studs to get all the interior covered and even change the acid inlet and drain from end to end to back-flush. I would invision this as somthing you could set-up and walk away from until you wanted to rotate the engine. I'm sure you could find something else to do and the system would not beusing pressure or heat. Some suggestions from off-the-wall places. Our city water is very hard and there is supposedly some kind of "Roter rooter outfit that can clean the water supply line from thr house to the meter at the street. A plumber might be able to offer some help this way or have some ideas concerning low pressure hot-water boilers. Also, maybe someone that does swimming pool maintenance would have some ideas. By the way, I passed my test this morning so I am a perfect a..h.l. . GPster

Dirk35 · February 24, 2006, 01:20:53 PM

How about calling the Local Swimming Pool/Spa and asking for a product to clean out scale?

Just a thought, but I am sure they, or a plumbing facility, would have ideas of a liquid product.

Even if they cannot help, its worth the 2 minutes talking to them on the phone.

enjenjo · February 24, 2006, 03:42:09 PM

QuoteI am a perfect a..h.l. . GPster

We knew that Joe

enjenjo · February 24, 2006, 03:44:22 PM

Well, I have a plumber buddy, I'll call him, and then I think I'll try the least destructive method first. If that doesn't work, I can get serious. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll let you know what happened.

GPster · February 24, 2006, 04:57:03 PM

Quote from: "enjenjo"We knew that Joe

Re-reading my message my typing is getting as good as yours' too. GPster

ONE37TUDOR · February 24, 2006, 09:30:53 PM

I wonder if a rust type remover would do the trick with scale? If it would this stuff would fit the application for pumping it throughout the block?

http://www.safestrustremover.com/#

Just a wild thought?

Scott...

parklane · February 24, 2006, 11:10:24 PM

Well Frank, I agree with Scrap Fe, about using the molasses. It will not attack the babbitt, or any clean iron/steel, all it does is remove rust. The only down fall with this method is that it takes time, like about 2-3 weeks to get rid of all the rust, but it do work gooood.

John

Bruce Dorsi · February 25, 2006, 02:25:59 AM

Quote from: "enjenjo"
So what do I use to clean it?

The proper chemical to remove scale is Sulfamic acid.

It is commonly used to remove scale in water heating coils and heat exchangers.

You can read a little about it at:
http://www.industrialcleaners.com/3101.htm

To do your job will probably require less than 5# of powder.

What you do is, seal the engine as best as possible, and circulate the acid solution from an open tank, through the engine block & head, then back into the open tank. ....You must use a pump which will tolerate the acid, such as a small plastic centrifugal pump.

If at all possible, HOT water (130-140F) is preferred, as it is more effective than cold water for the process.

As the acid solution reacts with the lime scale, bubbles are created and pumped into the open tank along with some sludge. .....When the bubbles diminish, more powder is added to the tank to restore its concentration. ....When no more bubbles are created, and adding more acid does not create more bubbles, all the scale has been removed.

A fresh water rinse, will clean out the acid. .....Do you have a pressure washer? ...If not, a trip to a self-service carwash will provide a good high-pressure cleaning of the cooling jackets.

If you confine the acid solution to just the water jackets, your babbit bearings and machined surfaces should be unaffected.

If you have anyone local who services boilers, they can probably recommend a source for the powder, or at least direct you to a coil cleaning company.

I had a tubing bundle in a tankless water heater cleaned a few months ago. ....It took about 2 hours, and I was charged $300. .....It is a very SIMPLE process, and I could do it now for just the cost of the acid, after seeing how.

Let me know if you need more specific info!