Detroit Auto Show / Challenger Concept Car

[40]

Just wondering if anyone from the RRT made the Auto Show?If so,I'd like to hear their opinion on the Challenger Concept Car....It has been the early 70's since I've been excited about a production car.....I know,they haven't committed to build it yet but I'm hopeful!! I have read nearly everything out in print but was just curious as to someones personal thoughts....One thing is certain,if they produce the car as it's now represented....I'll be one of the first guys in line! In fact,I've already had a conversation with our Chrysler dealer

[BFS57]

Hello;
Sorry, I didn't go but i saw a big amount on cable. I did like the Challenger, but did anyone see the concept car from Chevy for the Camaro? Wow! I also got the basic impression that the Japan cars were a little ahead of American cars as far as a various amount of details go.
Love those shows, always the latest and greatest, something to get ideas from, something to get excited about!
Bruce

[40]

I have seen various articles/photos etc in regard to the Camaro Concept as well....Though it's not a bad looking car....a cross somewhere between a Viper and Corvette....It doesn't have the Retro-look of the Challenger,in my opinion.I am hearing the 09 model year for the Challenger production(if it happens) and possibly 08 for the Camaro if it gets the go-ahead.You are right.....FINALLY something to get a bit excited about!

[Mikej]

They had the auto show on NBC yesterday. I thought the Camaro looked like something Foose might have designed. Maybe an SS with a motor out of the new Vet? They also showed the Challanger. It was cool as well. Would liked to see both in person.  Omaha car show is this weekend. I was hoping they might be here. They had Jeremy Mayfield test driving a SRT8 Charger on the show. I like this car also. I changed channel when they went to the foreign stuff.

[jaybee]

I like the Challenger A LOT.  If they can get it to market looking substantially like the show car they should sell a bunch of them.

I'm not so wild about the Camaro.  To me it has too many straight lines and angles fighting each other.

[enjenjo]

Well, I'm not excited about either of them. The styling is nice in both cases, but I think they have lost the reason for cars like this.

In 65 you could buy a Mustang that was nearly an all out racer, or one that would just get you from point A to point B. It was a sporty entry level car that every one young and old could relate to.

Outside of old farts like us, with lots of disposable income, who will relate to either one of them? Certainly not the 20 year olds of today. They are buying Hondas, and 10 years from now will be driving an Acura. You want an Acura engine in a Civic? It fits, kind of like the 327 fit in a Chevy II. So what can you do with a new Domestic car? Not much.

[58Apache]

Well Frank, you may have a point, but I already e-mailed Dodge and told them I'd be one of the people in line for one. I got kind of a personal message back thanking me for my comments. I told them what I liked and what I didn't like about it, and asked for more chrome

If I could have one other muscle car in addition to my 69 Chevelle, it would be a 1970 Challenger. Just try buying one in good shape today, and forget it if you want a convertible. I think it's cheaper to buy one of these factory new ones if they come out!

The way I see it, if all goes well money-wise for me, I'll be able to order from the factory a customized-for-me 1970-ish Dodge Challenger convertible with a Hemi, manual tranny, and many upgraded suspension and safety items. Not only that, I get a warantee     This is all assuming that 1. I get a promotion ....and 2. They price this thing reasonably!

I work with a young guy in his 20's who is an engineer. He's very interested. I think guys like you and all of the rodder crowd that have helped foster youth into appreciating yesterday's American cars, may help to create a youth market that eventually surprises us one day.

That is assuming that GM and FORD can figure out what they are doing wrong and start turning sales back around. I thought I heard that the new mustang was a big hit for Ford? Must not be big enough?

GM is heading in the right direction with bringing back the Camaro. The Corvette is always great, but out of my price range, and their trucks are great. I love my wife's 2002 Monte Carlo, but the rest of the line-up they can keep. They need to fire some college boys that never got their nails dirty or bean counters and hire some rodders like you Frank to make some changes. If they offered you a 6 figure salary would you come out of semi-retirement?

                                                                  Steve

[Crosley.In.AZ]

how about photos of the naked chick on the hood of the Challenger concept car?

I beleivve the the Mopar & GM management are looking at the sales of the new bodied Mustang and want some of the same.


Ol Frank makes a good point........ if the Mopar Challenger car does not cross over for younger folks too, it will not sell like the Mustang has

I still like the HHR....... imagine a turbo'd V-6 with AWD like the Syclone trucks in the HHR.  Or  a GN-X setup  

woo hoo

[enjenjo]

Would I do it for 6 figures? Yes, probably do it for 5 But I would let them figure out how to build what I want. I would just tell them what I want.

Overall As far as build quality and engineering, I think the domestics are doing a good job. But for the most part what they are building just doesn't interest me.

An example, on the new pickup trucks, you have to look under them to see if they are 4x4, because they all are high enough to be a 4x4. A guy was here today with a new F150, I was loading parts in the bed, and it was nearly 3 foot from the ground to the tailgate. I made a comment about 4x4's, and he told me it was 2 wheel drive. It just seems unnecessary.

[Uncle Bob]

A lot of good commentary.  And hope springs eternal.

Frank, your comments about the trucks go back to some of the fundamental problems.  My daily driver is a '97 Ram.  Thanks to Belltech for doing the engineering, but it was twice as much work to drop it as it was to do the '91 GMC I had before it (both were a 4-6 slam).  Two years ago I talked to a young engineer from Mopar at SEMA trying to figure out why they didn't consider the lowering crowd in their design.  Somewhere I must have learned how to speak Ukranian because all he could say in reply was, "But ALL the guys want to RAISE them!".  Oh well.

Detroits problems don't lie with the engineering and design people, and only slightly with the production operation, mainly it's poor management, especially when it comes to getting out their message.  Cadillac seems to be trying to lower it's average customer age from what seems like 102, but Lincoln appears in a downward spiral.  All the reports from the Detroit show I've read give a big thumbs down on the Lincoln stuff.  As for the rest of the lines I keep hearing folks with 20 something kids tell me that nearly all of them don't even think about domestic producers when it comes time to shop for a new car (and late model used too).  Frank, your comment about the engine is true which goes back to the companies being weak on promotion.  After SEMA this year I was impressed with the GM  Ecotec engine.  That mother performs!  Down in the fwd drag world the new Cobalts are making big inroads.  BTW, it is a great looking engine if anyone wants a semi-offy looking banger for a track roadster.

Frank's right about the "boomers" and these retro pieces.  When the Mustang concept hit the stands a few years ago I had the same feeling some of you are having for the Challenger and Camaro concepts.  Of course the production models always seem to have some compromises that take a bit of the "crisp" out of the concepts, but I still liked it enough to get one.  Must have had a lot of others as 05 sales for Mustang were up 35-40% (depending on who's figures you use) over 04.  But I bet they could have been higher but for their marketing decisions.  Whether they limited production on purpose so as to not over expose the car, or just couldn't keep up, here in the NW they were very hard to get until the price of gasoline did it's spike.  Only then did demand slow.  Convertibles were almost non-existant here.  The dealers told me that was because Ford felt it best to ship nearly all of those to the sunbelt.  Superficially that makes sense.  But years ago the biggest market (per capita) for sunglasses was Seattle (people must lose them because they don't use them often enough ).  Likewise, there are a lot of convertibles in this market.  I guess a lot of think we can outmarket those guys.

One last thing about getting the message out, though success with a niche car like Mustang will help but not save a company.  One of the Mustang magazines did a test last year.  They took a new, stock, Mustang GT (300 hp 4.6, 5 speed for those not familiar) with all the current standard stuff (A/C, power everything, stereo, etc), and matched it against a mostly stock (had 4 wheel disc upgrade)  A code '67 2+2, 4 speed, and a '65 GT 350 with mild race tires and open exhaust.  They ran the standard battery of tests; 1/4 mile, slalom, brake, etc.  With the exception of the slalom, which it only lost by about 1/2mph to the GT 350, the 05 cleaned house............on regular gasoline to boot.  Neat info, but if you're not a reader of that particular magazine you'd never know it.  If most of us would have been betting before the testing we'd likely have put our dough on the GT 350.

GM and Mopar, if they come to market, will likely share similar performance advantages against the cars they "honor", but will people see beyond the styling?  And will it make a difference to the younger buyers?

[DRD57]

If that Challenger was sitting on my local Dodge Dealer's showroom with a 6.1 hemi and a 6 speed, I'd be driving it tonight!

[enjenjo]

I'll agree that cars are much better today. The bar has been raised. The lowliest ecomobox today will out handle, out accelerate, and out brake any car built in 1955.  I would say that the Dodge Magnum, and Charger, Chevy HHR, and the new Mustang are closest to what I have in mind, but they are not priced as entry level vehicles. The Ford Focus, and Chevy Cobalt are in the price range, but are not really marketed as performance cars. I guess I am looking for something they can't provide any more.

[river1]

If that Challenger was sitting on my local Dodge Dealer's showroom with a 6.1 hemi and a 6 speed, I'd be driving it tonight!

yup me too :!:  :!:

i'd take the camaro too :!:  :!:

in a heartbeat

but only if i fit in them. everything i read says the american people are getting bigger and yet the car makers don't seem know this.

later jim

[40]

Build It And We Will Come ....I promise!!

[phat46]

I might as well chime in here too.  I liked the Challenger, if they build it they will come. All the younger guys i have talked to about it like it a lot. The Camaro didn't excite me at all, Looked too much like a foreign/Cadillac.  the best thing about these cars if they get built and are successful is the fact that the foreign companies will have nothing to compete against them with. They have no muscle car heritage. I heard that the Camaro wouldn't be built until '09 and that Chrysler is now trying to get the challeger going  quickly. Just like the old days huh...Chevy waiting till everyone one else is up and running and then gettting their own car out there. They (Chevy) will also have to up the anty in the H.P. department too.    The race may be back on!